Kai Wisdom and Fighting Fantasy Mailing List Rubbish #8 + associated websites
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The Scrolls of Titan
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http://www.linkexchange.com/ From: Jonathan Blake
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To: Kaiwisdom
Subject: [LW] Oasis changes location Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: kaiwisdom-approval@world.std.com
Precedence: list Reply-To: Jonathan Blake
Greetings, The Oasis now has its own URL!! Change your bookmarks to point to
. If you visit that address, you won't be able to
bookmark it directly; you'll have to edit your bookmarks. That address forwards
to the real location of the Oasis which is also in the process of changing. Its
URL will soon be . If you don't want to
bother with changing your bookmarks in the future, use
which will always in the future point to the Oasis.
For webmasters: This will affect any links to the Oasis. If you have any links
to the Oasis Home page, change them to point to . This
address will not change anymore. If you have a link to some other page then
you'll need to link to it using . For
example, to link to the Links page (why??), you would use:
. here's the ^^^^^
change They are making stupid political changes at my university that force me
to do this. I cannot guarantee that this kind of address will stay the same for
any length of time. However, the
address will not change; but you can't, at present, link to any pages beside the
Home page using that address. If you have any questions, please contact me at
. <-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-> Safe
Journeys, | Desert Lynx's Lone Wolf Oasis | http://www.lw-oasis.org | Desert
Lynx | jonblake@lw-oasis.org (aka Jonathan Blake) | ICQ #28311650 "For
Sommerlund and the Kai!"
<-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-> From:
Jonathan Blake
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To: Kaiwisdom
Subject: [LW] The e-Zine is unleashed!! Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="------------51AB042BF5BE14D6978A81EB" Sender: kaiwisdom-approval@world.std.com
Precedence: list Reply-To: Jonathan Blake
That's right. We've finally finished putting together the Lone Wolf e-Zine and
it's ready for your perusal. We think you're in for a treat. The first issue
includes an interview with Paul Barnett (aka John Grant), new fan fiction,
helpful articles, games and more...
We look forward to many more fun, informative issues of Rising Sun. -- Rising
Sun Editorial Staff kai-editor@geocities.com Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
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Rising Sun
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Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 06:51:45 -0600 To: fightingfantasy@listbot.com
From: "Mark J. Popp"
Subject: The Biggest FF News of your Life! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Fighting Fantasy - http://www.cadvision.com/poppmj/fflist.htm
Congratulations! Yes, we have finally decided to move to our own domain at
. Not everyone may be able to access it at the
same time, depending on where you are in the world, but once it is fully
operational I will be taking the old Scrolls of Titan site down. Please update
your bookmarks/links! Since this is a very expensive move, everyone is asked to
contribute $35 (Canadian) per annum to keep up with administrative and hosting
costs, and send 3-5 of your favorite FF Books to my home address. Also, everyone
will be expected to click on the banners a few times to keep costs down. You can
disregard everything in that last paragraph except the part about the move being
expensive. :) However, I am paying out of my own pocket, so there are no
membership fees, no banners to click, and no advertisements to load. There will
be a lot of broken links and such at the new site, so keep me informed of such,
dysfunctional graphics, and general problems when you spot them. Let me know of
what you think of the new menu system. Does it improve site navigation? Once
again, thanks for anyone who has contributed in the past, and will continue to
contribute in the future. Hope you all make the jump safely to the new site!
************************************************************** Mark J. Popp |
poppmj@cadvision.com | Calgary, Alberta, Canada http://www.cadvision.com/poppmj/
************************************************************** To: Kaiwisdom
CC: blakej1@nevada.edu Subject: Issue 2 of Rising Sun Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The long awaited publication of
the second issue of Rising Sun has finally arrived! (A little past due...)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Quadrant/8474/ We hope you'll enjoy this issue.
If you'd like to contribute to Rising Sun, please contact us; the more hands the
better. Even if you don't see similar material in previous issues, don't be
discouraged from contributing. -- Rising Sun Staff
________________________________________________________________________________
Don't know about Creature of Havoc as mine has always been fine, but I have a
British first edition Slaves of the Abyss with a definite faulty ending. I can't
remember the exact details, but it's something along the lines of turning to a
reference wanting to turn left down a tunnel and you end up in the middle of a
fight to the death, being asked if you want to use an item from your backpack.
Also, I have a theory as to the lack of popularity of FF (well, of any other
gamebook series as well). The main audience for these books is in the 8 to 14
area. Its a time when a lot of parents and schools try to instil better reading
habits in kids. Rather than considering the fact that gamebooks actually draw
the reader in, making reading seem more exciting to kids, they are seen as a
problem. FF books have a set start and end but no set middle, so they can't be
*proper* books and are therefore not bought and were often (in my experience
anyway) banned. It was therefore the kids either not bitten by the FF bug or who
were not good enough at throwing tantrums (as I did at the age of nine when told
that I wasn't allowed any more of 'those "go to" books') who originally boosted
the FF sales to the best-seller level (after all Warlock, Citadel and Forest of
Doom are the only three childrens books of the same series to have occupied the
top three slots in the Times childrens books chart at the same time) but then,
through the combined efforts of parents and teachers, were no longer allowed to
buy them and therefore the popularity of the series suffered. Just a thought,
but it seems a reasonable theory to me. Chris
______________________________________________________________________ Aardvark
of Doom wrote on Aug 28: >The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
> >Don't know about Creature of Havoc as mine has always been fine, but I have
>a British first edition Slaves of the Abyss with a definite faulty ending. >I
can't remember the exact details, but it's something along the lines of >turning
to a reference wanting to turn left down a tunnel and you end up in >the middle
of a fight to the death, being asked if you want to use an item >from your
backpack. That may not be a faulty ending. It may just be authors unwisely
skipping intermediate explanations and dropping you into a paragraph that routes
from elsewhere, hoping you can infer the 'missing' part. Then again, it may just
be a faulty routing. First I've heard of it, though. On your theory of lack of
popularity: sounds fair enough, but isn't it equally possible that it's just a
fad, like most things 8-14 year olds do? ---- Best wishes Paul Mason Outlaws/imazine
http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~panurge Mark J. Popp wrote on Aug 28: >The Fighting
Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com > >Hello, > >There is
another update at FightingFantasy.Com including a new story, some >reviews, and
an interview with Jackson & Livingstone from G.M. Thanks to >Nathan P. Mahney
for scanning it in for us. The interview is full of >original info from about 10
years ago. I must admit I had never heard of >Fantasy Interactive Scenarios by
Telephone. Well I mentioned it in an email to you some while ago. It was
originally Steve's thing, and he tried to get Steve Williams and I to ghost him
an adventure, but when we noticed that he wanted us to make a contract with him,
and then he would make a contract with the production company (rather than the
FF situation, where Ian and Steve collect a percentage of our contract with
Puffin) we weren't interested. I later did one for Ian called something like
'Duel of Wizards' which was a rather carefully balanced game. Unfortunately I
wasn't invited along to the recording (perhaps Ian didn't want to admit he
hadn't written it himself) and arbitrary changes were made which ruined it as a
game. I proposed a Star Trek telephone game to Ian, which I think could have
been fun, but (justifiably) he was reluctant to shell out for the licensing. In
the end, the whole thing collapsed because it was a very dodgy way of extracting
money from parents by inducing their children to spent ages on the phone at
premium rates. ---- Best wishes Paul Mason Outlaws/imazine http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~panurge
Doesn't the growth of the various rleplaying computer games have something to do
with it too? ahoy, Jason Harris On Sat, 28 Aug 1999, Aardvark of Doom wrote: >
The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com > > Don't
know about Creature of Havoc as mine has always been fine, but I have > a
British first edition Slaves of the Abyss with a definite faulty ending. > I
can't remember the exact details, but it's something along the lines of >
turning to a reference wanting to turn left down a tunnel and you end up in >
the middle of a fight to the death, being asked if you want to use an item >
from your backpack. > > Also, I have a theory as to the lack of popularity of FF
(well, of any other > gamebook series as well). The main audience for these
books is in the 8 to > 14 area. Its a time when a lot of parents and schools try
to instil better > reading habits in kids. Rather than considering the fact that
gamebooks > actually draw the reader in, making reading seem more exciting to
kids, they > are seen as a problem. FF books have a set start and end but no set
middle, > so they can't be *proper* books and are therefore not bought and were
often > (in my experience anyway) banned. It was therefore the kids either not >
bitten by the FF bug or who were not good enough at throwing tantrums (as I >
did at the age of nine when told that I wasn't allowed any more of 'those > "go
to" books') who originally boosted the FF sales to the best-seller level >
(after all Warlock, Citadel and Forest of Doom are the only three childrens >
books of the same series to have occupied the top three slots in the Times >
childrens books chart at the same time) but then, through the combined > efforts
of parents and teachers, were no longer allowed to buy them and > therefore the
popularity of the series suffered. Just a thought, but it > seems a reasonable
theory to me. > > Chris >
______________________________________________________________________ From: "J.
Harris"
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: Re: Impossible endings In-Reply-To: <199908280455.AA00494@panurge.tcp-ip.or.jp>
Message-ID:
MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Fighting
Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com Howdy, I'd have to dig in
to make sure exactly where all the trouble is, but as I recall (and glancing
through) I see on 155 there's that orb you need to enter and though I don't have
my old character notes I remember I had figured out the language you need to
speak and discovered the proper number to add or subtract to enter the orb and
yet according to the pagination it didn't work! If everyone is positive all is
well with the pagination/codes etc. I'll just have to do it again I suppose some
day so I can find the exact error--which at the time I was 100% positive of.
anyhow off I go, Jason On Sat, 28 Aug 1999, Paul Mason wrote: > The Fighting
Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com > > Aardvark of Doom wrote
on Aug 28: > > >The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
> > > >Don't know about Creature of Havoc as mine has always been fine, but I
have > >a British first edition Slaves of the Abyss with a definite faulty
ending. > >I can't remember the exact details, but it's something along the
lines of > >turning to a reference wanting to turn left down a tunnel and you
end up in > >the middle of a fight to the death, being asked if you want to use
an item > >from your backpack. > > That may not be a faulty ending. It may just
be authors unwisely skipping intermediate > explanations and dropping you into a
paragraph that routes from elsewhere, hoping you > can infer the 'missing' part.
> > Then again, it may just be a faulty routing. First I've heard of it, though.
> > On your theory of lack of popularity: sounds fair enough, but isn't it
equally possible that > it's just a fad, like most things 8-14 year olds do? > >
---- > Best wishes > > Paul Mason > Outlaws/imazine http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~panurge
> > > ______________________________________________________________________
From: Paul Mason
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:45:35 +0900 To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Subject: Re: Impossible endings In-Reply-To:
MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AL-Mail32 Version 1.01 Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
J. Harris wrote on Aug 28: >The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
> >Howdy, > >I'd have to dig in to make sure exactly where all the trouble is,
but as I >recall (and glancing through) I see on 155 there's that orb you need
to >enter and though I don't have my old character notes I remember I had
>figured out the language you need to speak and discovered the proper >number to
add or subtract to enter the orb and yet according to the >pagination it didn't
work! If everyone is positive all is well with the >pagination/codes etc. I'll
just have to do it again I suppose some day so >I can find the exact
error--which at the time I was 100% positive of. I have to admit - I co-wrote
the thing, and I don't recall this at all. I'm not saying there isn't a mistake
(it was our first gamebook, after all) though, and I'd be interested to hear
whether anyone else found this. Unfortunately the only copy of Slaves that I
have with me is the Japanese version. Paragraph 155 of that doesn't seem to
resemble what you describe above at all (it's one in which you're travelling,
and you use a letter to get yourself a fast horse). Any comments from any one
more expert in the FF oeuvre? ---- Best wishes Paul Mason Outlaws/imazine
http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~panurge From: "J. Harris"
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: Re: Impossible endings In-Reply-To: <199908280745.AA00496@panurge.tcp-ip.or.jp>
Message-ID:
MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Fighting
Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com Ah, a misunderstanding. .
I've been talking about "Creature of Havoc!" On Sat, 28 Aug 1999, Paul Mason
wrote: > The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com > >
J. Harris wrote on Aug 28: > > >The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
> > > >Howdy, > > > >I'd have to dig in to make sure exactly where all the
trouble is, but as I > >recall (and glancing through) I see on 155 there's that
orb you need to > >enter and though I don't have my old character notes I
remember I had > >figured out the language you need to speak and discovered the
proper > >number to add or subtract to enter the orb and yet according to the >
>pagination it didn't work! If everyone is positive all is well with the >
>pagination/codes etc. I'll just have to do it again I suppose some day so > >I
can find the exact error--which at the time I was 100% positive of. > > I have
to admit - I co-wrote the thing, and I don't recall this at all. I'm not saying
> there isn't a mistake (it was our first gamebook, after all) though, and I'd
be > interested to hear whether anyone else found this. Unfortunately the only
copy > of Slaves that I have with me is the Japanese version. Paragraph 155 of
that > doesn't seem to resemble what you describe above at all (it's one in
which you're > travelling, and you use a letter to get yourself a fast horse). >
> Any comments from any one more expert in the FF oeuvre? > > ---- > Best wishes
> > Paul Mason > Outlaws/imazine http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~panurge > From: Paul
Mason
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 19:43:41 +0900 To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Subject: Re: Impossible endings In-Reply-To:
MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AL-Mail32 Version 1.01 Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
J. Harris wrote on Aug 28: >The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
> >Ah, a misunderstanding. . I've been talking about "Creature of Havoc!" Thank
goodness for that. I rather prided myself on the accuracy of my books, whatever
their literary failings. (Cue an avalanche of postings from list members
exposing misroutings and other fluffs from my work!) ---- Best wishes Paul Mason
Outlaws/imazine http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~panurge
______________________________________________________________________ From: G
Hart
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: gamebook demise (Re: Impossible endings) X-Sender: GH115@imap.hermes.cam.ac.uk
In-Reply-To: <000701bef0eb$b0f9e320$393e63c3@L.Shaw> Message-ID:
MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Fighting
Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com The Aardvark of Doom
thundered: > Also, I have a theory as to the lack of popularity of FF (well, of
any other > gamebook series as well). The main audience for these books is in
the 8 to > 14 area. Its a time when a lot of parents and schools try to instil
better > reading habits in kids. Rather than considering the fact that gamebooks
> actually draw the reader in, making reading seem more exciting to kids, they >
are seen as a problem... I'd agree with you that far, and also with Paul that
there was an element of faddism about gamebooks that contributed to their
decline; once the initial novelty had faded, unless gamebooks were allowed to
evolve and to continue presenting themselves as something fresh and interesting,
they would eventually be perceived by publishers as outdated, as a craze that
had had its time. Then, once publishers stopped pushing the books (and I'm not
sure they ever really did promote them *very* much), and the profile of the
genre dropped, sales would dwindle, retailers would order fewer books,
publishers would look upon them even less favourably, and so on in a vicious
downward spiral until publication of all series ceased and only the most
hardboiled fans were left to protest, their voices echoing plaintively in the
empty gamebook wilderness. I suspect that publishers never took the books
seriously in the first place, but merely rode the wave of their popularity (and
raked in the cash) while they could, for the same reason that parents might also
have been suspicious: as the mighty Aardvark suggests, they were not "proper"
books. Rather than books to be read, they were seen as games to be played
(calling them "gamebooks" probably wasn't very helpful). So, as far as reading
was concerned, they did not count. I believe that to have survived, the gamebook
needed to have been taken seriously as a genre in its own right, as a worthy
vehicle of the imagination that offering new horizons for exploration. It
probably did not help, therefore, to package them as *introductions* to group
roleplaying. It was also unfortunate that the appearance of gamebooks coincided
with the rise of the home computer-game. The game-element invited an obvious
comparison, that gamebooks were merely computer-game substitutes, and as long as
the misperception endured (in the minds of both publishers and readers) that
gamebooks were naturally in direct competition with computer-games, then with
computer-games growing ever more sophisticated and affordable, gamebooks were
going to suffer. Well, anyway, that's my theory. Of course, I could be wrong.
Graham Hart gh115@hermes.cam.ac.uk
______________________________________________________________________ To
unsubscribe, write to FightingFantasy-unsubscribe@listbot.com From: Paul Mason
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:07:54 +0900 To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Subject: Re: gamebook demise (Re: Impossible endings) In-Reply-To:
MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AL-Mail32 Version 1.01 Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
G Hart wrote on Aug 29: >I believe that to have survived, the gamebook needed to
have been taken >seriously as a genre in its own right, as a worthy vehicle of
the imagination >that offering new horizons for exploration. It probably did not
help, >therefore, to package them as *introductions* to group roleplaying. Agree
with most of your points (especially that publishers didn't take them seriously
- but then publishers take very few areas of publishing seriously), however I
think you're missing the target here, I don't think gamebooks were extensively
promoted as introductions to rolegaming. However, I always objected to the use
of the term 'role-playing' being applied to gamebooks, so maybe there is a point
of agreement here, too. ---- Best wishes Paul Mason Outlaws/imazine http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~panurge
To: kaiwisdom@world.std.com From: R Pentney
Subject: [LW] republishing Sender: kaiwisdom-approval@world.std.com Precedence:
list Reply-To: R Pentney
Did you know that at my english department if they want to study a book which is
out of print they can automatically 'republish it'. Doesn't that sound cool? I
don't know how they do it but are there any english professors out there???
Imagine a paper called 101: Gamebooks of the 20th century :) I also hope Dave
Morris finds another publisher for his fabled lands series. If you have books
1-6 that series rocks!!!! It would be nice to see the bloodsword books
republished. At the very least a limited collectors edition would be nice, I'd
like to see a hardcover, large sized compilation book for each of the four
lonewolf series (Kai, magnakai, grandmaster and new order), with maybe some
revised and clearer rules. From: "Jason Gaerke"
To: "Kaiwisdom Mailing list"
Subject: [LW] Attached Listing of Joe Dever Books Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999
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Precedence: list Reply-To: "Jason Gaerke"
I've attached a HTML file that lists what books there are written by Joe Dever.
It is 11 kilobytes, so it's pretty small. The page is taken from the Secrets of
the Kai website, which may be up and running by the end of next month. Best
wishes, Jaosn -----Original Message----- From: Shizukana Wolf
To: Kaiwisdom Mailing list
Date: Sunday, August 29, 1999 4:51 AM Subject: [LW] An idea... > Has someone
made a webpage for people looking for LW books? Something that >lists out what
people need for their collection? I donno, just thinking something >like this
would help out for people who try to help out other LW fans get their >fix. :) >
And if someone has done this... can i have the url? :) > > Shizukana Wolf >
Tribute to Lone Wolf, located in Shotia! > http://www.users.uswest.net/~jrmeyer/LoneWolf.htm
> > > Attachment Converted: H:\Deverboo.html From: Darren Blizzard
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: RE:ELEMENTS OF WHAT MAKE AN FF GREAT Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:37:53
+1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
- http://www.fightingfantasy.com Citadel Of Chaos I actually enjoyed quite a
bit. It was a bitch to map though....but looking at the map, yes it is quite
complex. However someone mentioned Space Assassin as being too easy. I agree,
but for me atmosphere....the vibe...that was all that mattered. Sometimes a book
could be easy but made you feel like you were there with the imagery that it
conjured up, so that was all that mattered for me. I guess others would also
feel this way, whilst still others would probably prefer to have a decent
challenge at the expense of atmosphere/vibe. I guess still others would prefer a
combination of the two ! Isnt great being all individuals !! :-) Regards, Darren
Blizzard -------------------------------------------------- Darren Blizzard
From: Darren Blizzard
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: RE: Impossible endings Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:56:05 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
That's an interesting theory as to why the popularity of gamebooks declined. I
would go a step further and say that as video games became more and more
popular, and subsequent generations of kids became more and more used to what I
term "instant gratification", the hard work of reading became less and less
popular. Back in the late 70's early 80's, my brother and myself could amuse
ourselves by lining up star wars figures around the house and use an elastic
band as our laser gun and see who could knock the most down. You think a kid
could be satisified now with that when you have PC's, Playstations, Nintendo's,
lax TV restrictiond (I was only allowed to watch so much TV and had to go to bed
at certain times). I had read Lord Of The Rings twice by the time I was 15. I
reckon the 15 year old I see now would be struggling to read a Choose Your Own
Adventure with the literary standards I have seen recently. Its appalling. I
think technology, as well as the ignorance of parents, that have contributed to
not only the death of FF, but to childrens sense of creativity and imagination.
Its very sad that I could actually learn when doing an assignment. Eg :- I would
do one on Sharks for example. You'd get 5 or 6 books from the library (my 13
year old brother in law wouldn't even know how to look a book up in a library -
im not kidding !!), read some paragraphs in each, slap them together from the
different books and reword them. You would then rewrite it. You'd have to know
your work to be able to restructure it so you were not plagerising (is that
spelt right ?:-)). You would also have to state the books you used in the
Bibliography. What I have seen of kids today is scary --> type in "Sharks: in
Microsoft Encarta or a web browser, cut and paste the text into a word document
and rearrange it a bit. State that you used the "Internet" or "Microsoft
Encarta" as a reference and boom, 2 hours later you are finished. It really is
atrocious....or am I just getting old !!???! :-) Regards, Darren Blizzard From:
"Jason Valasek"
To: kaiwisdom@world.std.com Subject: Re: [LW] allies? Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999
19:21:53 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender:
kaiwisdom-approval@world.std.com Precedence: list Reply-To: "Jason Valasek"
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by europe.std.com id
WAA07332 >is anyone assigned to compile a list of allies in the gamebooks? But
don't they all die? The only ally of Lone Wolf that hasn't been seriously
pestered by the forces of Darkness is Gwynian. Rimoah gets abducted in "Skull of
Agarash," Banedon is kidnaped in 14, and everyone else dies: Rhygar, Cyrilus,
Paido, Sebb Jarel, Lord Adamas, etc., plus Storm Hawk and Petra if you want to
involve the LOLW series. It's like the Lassie Syndrome. Do you really think
little Timmy Martin would have gotten into all that trouble if it wasn't for
that accursed collie? Night Owl __________________________________ http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Crater/5015
"Never mind that; my heart's law is what matters..." - from Stephen King's
"Wizard and Glass" "If the frog stays in a little pond, he thinks he knows the
world. But when he gets to the ocean, he is lost." - Taekwondo Grandmaster Hee
Il Cho "Unless someone like you cares a whole lot, nothing is going to get
better. It's not." - from Dr. Seuss's "The Lorax" "I'm not beautiful like you;
I'm beautiful like me." - from Joydrop's "Beautiful" "Wer hält deine Hand wenn
es dich nach unten zieht?" - from Rammstein's "Seemann" "If you want to lift
yourself up, lift someone else up." - Booker T. Washington "I have no more
patience than the next fellow. I just use mine." - Ignace Paderewski "You'll
never shine if you don't glow." - from Smash Mouth's "All Star" "My justice I
maintain and I will not relinquish it." - Job 27:6 "Do or do not; there is no
try." - Yoda, Jedi Master ______________________________________________________
From: Paul Mason
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:00:09 +0900 To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Subject: Re: Impossible endings In-Reply-To:
<2137CA65666BD4119D7600902776711E0661@MAGNA> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer:
AL-Mail32 Version 1.01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The Fighting
Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com Darren Blizzard wrote on
Aug 30: >It really is >atrocious....or am I just getting old !!???! :-) Both.
---- Best wishes Paul Mason Outlaws/imazine http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~panurge
From: "J. Harris"
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: RE: Impossible endings In-Reply-To:
<2137CA65666BD4119D7600902776711E0661@MAGNA> Message-ID:
MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Fighting
Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com My brother was obsessed
with shooting little figures with rubber bands too. He'd also build towers of
blocks and destroy some of the structure that way. Indeed, we had wars between a
variety of beasties using good old elastic bands--the golden days those were.
ahoy, Jason Harris On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, Darren Blizzard wrote: > The Fighting
Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com > > That's an interesting
theory as to why the popularity of gamebooks > declined. I would go a step
further and say that as video games became > more and more popular, and
subsequent generations of kids became more > and more used to what I term
"instant gratification", the hard work of > reading became less and less
popular. Back in the late 70's early 80's, > my brother and myself could amuse
ourselves by lining up star wars > figures around the house and use an elastic
band as our laser gun and > see who could knock the most down. You think a kid
could be satisified > now with that when you have PC's, Playstations,
Nintendo's, lax TV > restrictiond (I was only allowed to watch so much TV and
had to go to > bed at certain times). I had read Lord Of The Rings twice by the
time I > was 15. I reckon the 15 year old I see now would be struggling to read
> a Choose Your Own Adventure with the literary standards I have seen >
recently. Its appalling. I think technology, as well as the ignorance > of
parents, that have contributed to not only the death of FF, but to > childrens
sense of creativity and imagination. Its very sad that I > could actually learn
when doing an assignment. Eg :- I would do one on > Sharks for example. You'd
get 5 or 6 books from the library (my 13 year > old brother in law wouldn't even
know how to look a book up in a library > - im not kidding !!), read some
paragraphs in each, slap them together > from the different books and reword
them. You would then rewrite it. > You'd have to know your work to be able to
restructure it so you were > not plagerising (is that spelt right ?:-)). You
would also have to > state the books you used in the Bibliography. What I have
seen of kids > today is scary --> type in "Sharks: in Microsoft Encarta or a web
> browser, cut and paste the text into a word document and rearrange it a > bit.
State that you used the "Internet" or "Microsoft Encarta" as a > reference and
boom, 2 hours later you are finished. It really is > atrocious....or am I just
getting old !!???! :-) > > Regards, > > Darren Blizzard From: "Nathan P MAHNEY"
Organization: University of Ballarat To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:52:17 +1000 Subject: Re: Impossible endings Priority:
normal References: <199908280455.AA00494@panurge.tcp-ip.or.jp> In-reply-to:
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List -
http://www.fightingfantasy.com Send reply to: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing
List"
Date sent: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:42:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Harris"
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: Re: Impossible endings > The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
> > Howdy, > > I'd have to dig in to make sure exactly where all the trouble is,
but as I > recall (and glancing through) I see on 155 there's that orb you need
to > enter and though I don't have my old character notes I remember I had >
figured out the language you need to speak and discovered the proper > number to
add or subtract to enter the orb and yet according to the > pagination it didn't
work! If everyone is positive all is well with the > pagination/codes etc. I'll
just have to do it again I suppose some day so > I can find the exact
error--which at the time I was 100% positive of. > Ok, I played through Creature
of Havoc just last week, and I think I see your problem. I'll whack in some
spoiler space if you don't actually want any hints... Okay, it sounds to me like
you're at the wrong place. It seems as though you are searching for Zharradan
Marr at the orb, which is definitely not the correct place to do so. Anyway, you
still have to cheat using the pendant in a place pretty close by. Damn, it's
hard trying to help people without giving things away too much. Anyway, the one
thing that struck me as I was reading the book again was that after 7 years of
never seeing it I could still read that damn gibberish that Steve Jackson came
up with. It's amazing how things like that stay with you. - Nathan Mahney -
From: "J. Harris"
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: Re: Impossible endings In-Reply-To: <199908300652.QAA27340@eureka.ballarat.edu.au>
Message-ID:
MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Fighting
Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com Hello Nathan, One more
question here. . . Darren Blizzard confirmed there was a mistake in the
Australian version . . . are you saying there is also a mistake in the UK
version, or just that I was using a certain item code at the wrong place? One
thing--I don't remember if it was even at the orb that I tried that code, but I
went to the spot that I seem to recall being directed towards . . . anyhow, do
let me know if there was UK error. Was this your 2nd time revisiting the book?
ahoy, Jason H. On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, Nathan P MAHNEY wrote: > The Fighting
Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com > > Send reply to: "The
Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
> Date sent: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:42:26 -0700 (PDT) > From: "J. Harris"
> To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Impossible endings > > > The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List -
http://www.fightingfantasy.com > > > > Howdy, > > > > I'd have to dig in to make
sure exactly where all the trouble is, but as I > > recall (and glancing
through) I see on 155 there's that orb you need to > > enter and though I don't
have my old character notes I remember I had > > figured out the language you
need to speak and discovered the proper > > number to add or subtract to enter
the orb and yet according to the > > pagination it didn't work! If everyone is
positive all is well with the > > pagination/codes etc. I'll just have to do it
again I suppose some day so > > I can find the exact error--which at the time I
was 100% positive of. > > > > Ok, I played through Creature of Havoc just last
week, and I think I > see your problem. I'll whack in some spoiler space if you
don't > actually want any hints... > > Okay, it sounds to me like you're at the
wrong place. It seems as > though you are searching for Zharradan Marr at the
orb, which is > definitely not the correct place to do so. Anyway, you still
have to > cheat using the pendant in a place pretty close by. Damn, it's hard >
trying to help people without giving things away too much. > > Anyway, the one
thing that struck me as I was reading the book > again was that after 7 years of
never seeing it I could still read that > damn gibberish that Steve Jackson came
up with. It's amazing > how things like that stay with you. > > - Nathan Mahney
- > From: "Nathan P MAHNEY"
Organization: University of Ballarat To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:15:30 +1000 Subject: Re: Impossible endings Priority:
normal References: <199908300652.QAA27340@eureka.ballarat.edu.au> In-reply-to:
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List -
http://www.fightingfantasy.com Send reply to: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing
List"
Date sent: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 00:14:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Harris"
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: Re: Impossible endings > The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
> > Hello Nathan, > > One more question here. . . Darren Blizzard confirmed
there was a > mistake in > the Australian version . . . are you saying there is
also a mistake in the > UK version, or just that I was using a certain item code
at the wrong > place? One thing--I don't remember if it was even at the orb that
I tried > that code, but I went to the spot that I seem to recall being directed
> towards . . . anyhow, do let me know if there was UK error. Was this your >
2nd time revisiting the book? > I'm Australian as well, so my version is the
same as Darren's. I don't really recall there being any mistakes as such, just
that you have to use the pendant in a place where you shouldn't be allowed to.
Apart from that it works fine. The description you gave me seemed as though you
were using an item in the wrong place, I think. As for how many times I've
revisited this book, don't ask. It is absolutely my favourite FF ever, and I've
read it a lot. It is my first time for a while though, as I took a long hiatus
from gamebooks over the last few years. I hope this helps! - Nathan Mahney -
From: G Hart
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: Re: gamebook demise X-Sender: GH115@imap.hermes.cam.ac.uk In-Reply-To:
<199908290407.AA00500@panurge.tcp-ip.or.jp> Message-ID:
MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Fighting
Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com Oh dear, another wad of
waffle from me. Sorry if anyone's finding this tiresome. Anyway, Paul Mason
wrote: > Agree with most of your points (especially that publishers didn't take
them > seriously - but then publishers take very few areas of publishing
seriously), > however I think you're missing the target here, I don't think
gamebooks were > extensively promoted as introductions to rolegaming. > >
However, I always objected to the use of the term 'role-playing' being > applied
to gamebooks, so maybe there is a point of agreement here, too. Yes, I may have
allowed to the adrenalin that was surging through my arteries to cause me to
fire a bit off-target. Well, no, that's a little overdramatic, but I may have
been oversimplifying the situation. I admit, I cannot remember any instances of
gamebooks overtly presenting themselves as introductory role-playing.
Nevertheless, I would be surprised if at least some authors, publishers,
retailers, and readers did not have that perception of the books. I know that
I've seen the phrase "solo role-playing" *somewhere* before now; but because I
do not have my books with me, I cannot check whether any gamebooks actually
advertised *themselves* on the cover as "solo role-playing adventures". Still,
surely at least the *association* of gamebooks with group role-playing existed:
after all, the FF gamebooks were Fighting Fantasy, but the FF equivalent of
role-playing sourcebooks and adventure modules (Blacksand, Allansia, etc.) were
*Advanced* Fighting Fantasy, which could just create the impression that that's
what the reader was supposed to graduate onto when they were ready to move
"beyond" the FF gamebooks. At least, that was *my* impression. I could be in the
minority. Similarly, I can't recall any gamebook explicitly described as a
computer game substitute, but that association certainly arose in some people's
minds, presumably because of the game element of the books, and especially when
some gamebooks were adapted as computer games (Warlock, Lone Wolf, Deathtrap
Dungeon), and some computer games were adapted as gamebooks (Lemmings, Sonic the
Hedgehog, Eternal Champion). For example, MacMillan justified in part their
cancellation of the Fabled Lands series by claiming that the message they had
received from retailers was that children (note the assumption that gamebooks
are only of interest to children!) prefer playing computer-games to gamebooks.
MacMillan's point may be a valid statement of what many children do; I haven't
done any research of my own to find out. *My* point, however, is that any
perception of gamebooks either as paper imitations of computer games or as
simplified role-playing for the solo reader would have been to their detriment,
leaving gamebooks in both cases as poor cousins of the "real thing". I admit,
however, that much of this is speculation. I don't really know how widespread
such attitudes were, or in which groups they were most commonly held (authors,
publishers, retailers, or readers). I'm just offering up what seem to me to be
possible reasons for the relative decline of the gamebook once the initial
lustre of novelty had been dulled. Graham Hart gh115@hermes.cam.ac.uk From:
Svein Børge Hjorthaug
To: "FF Mailing List"
Subject: RoS books Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:45:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express
5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 The
Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com This one's for
Paul, I recon: The Robin of Sherwood gamebooks you made, were they based on the
UK TV-show of that very same name, starring Michael Praed (and later Jason
Connery) as Robin? Cheers, Svein From: Benjamin Krefetz
To: Jason Valasek
cc: kaiwisdom@world.std.com Subject: Re: [LW] allies? In-Reply-To:
<19990830022154.72840.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID:
MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: kaiwisdom-approval@world.std.com
Precedence: list Reply-To: Benjamin Krefetz
On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, Jason Valasek wrote: > >is anyone assigned to compile a
list of allies in the gamebooks? > > But don't they all die? The only ally of
Lone Wolf that hasn't been > seriously pestered by the forces of Darkness is
Gwynian. Rimoah gets > abducted in "Skull of Agarash," Banedon is kidnaped in
14, and everyone else > dies: Rhygar, Cyrilus, Paido, Sebb Jarel, Lord Adamas,
etc., plus Storm Hawk > and Petra if you want to involve the LOLW series. > >
It's like the Lassie Syndrome. Do you really think little Timmy Martin > would
have gotten into all that trouble if it wasn't for that accursed > collie? Prarg
makes off pretty well. (Okay, he's almost beheaded, but how bad is that really?)
Ben Krefetz From: Paul Mason
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:35:06 +0900 To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Subject: Re: RoS books In-Reply-To: <035401bef2e5$96f19580$aa6447c1@funcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AL-Mail32 Version 1.01 Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=iso-2022-jp The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
Svein_B_$B"._(Jge_Hjorthaug wrote on Aug 30: _(J >The Fighting Fantasy Mailing
List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com > >This one's for Paul, I recon: > >The
Robin of Sherwood gamebooks you made, were they based on the UK TV-show >of that
very same name, starring Michael Praed (and later Jason Connery) as >Robin?
Absolutely. Sadly, although we wrote them based on the Praed Robin, they both
had photos of the Connery Robin on the cover. Another reason for their utter
failure to sell, I occasionally tell myself. Still, one of the best things about
writing the books (which were designed with a system that could also be used
easily for a role-playing game - is that Graham I can see squirming at the
back?) was that we got hold of Richard Carpenter's 'Bible', the huge continuity
document for the series. Absolutely marvellous stuff. Personally I think
thatcould have been published as is. Loads of role-players would have bought it,
if no one else. Somehow I don't think I'll get the opportunity of writing any
Scarlett Pimpernel (Carpenter's current series) gamebooks! ---- Best wishes Paul
Mason Outlaws/imazine http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~panurge From: Paul Mason
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:21:56 +0900 To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Subject: Re: gamebook demise In-Reply-To:
MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AL-Mail32 Version 1.01 Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
G Hart wrote on Aug 30: >The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
> >Oh dear, another wad of waffle from me. All good points as usual, to which I
will just contribute the thought that the Puffin editors didn't have a clue what
role-playing was anyway, so they didn't really contribute to the confusion. What
caused it was that the sort of fractured approach to storytelling that being a
role-playing referee trains you in seemed to be good training for writing
gamebooks. Thus most of the writers were role-players, and unsurprisingly also
wanted to try to 'break' role-playing to a mainstream audience. On Advanced
Fighting Fantasy, I have plenty of objections to that game as a role-playing
game, never mind the gamebook connection. I found it very sad, since Marc was an
old friend from fanzine days, and I had played in Pete's game regularly for a
year or so while working at Games Workshop and after. I think they could have
done much better. It might have been more adventurous to find a new, hybrid form
that lay between role-playing and gamebooks. This is the sort of thing that
Hogshead's James Wallis is currently aiming for (if you haven't heard of Baron
Munchausen: ASK!). ---- Best wishes Paul Mason Outlaws/imazine http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~panurge
From: G Hart
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: Re: RoS books X-Sender: GH115@imap.hermes.cam.ac.uk In-Reply-To:
<199908301335.AA00513@panurge.tcp-ip.or.jp> Message-ID:
MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Fighting
Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com > Still, one of the best
things about writing the books (which were > designed with a system that could
also be used easily for a role-playing > game - is that Graham I can see
squirming at the back?)... No, just fidgetting slightly. I've got no objection
in principle to gamebooks and role-playing systems tying in with each other. I
like to see the same ideas being explored in different formats just as I like to
see the same stories being treated in different media (for example, books being
adapted as films and vice versa). I only start squirming when one medium is
perceived as somehow subordinate or inferior to another. Graham Hart gh115@hermes.cam.ac.uk
From: G Hart
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: Baron Munchausen X-Sender: GH115@imap.hermes.cam.ac.uk In-Reply-To:
<199908301321.AA00511@panurge.tcp-ip.or.jp> Message-ID:
MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Fighting
Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com Paul wrote: > It might
have been more adventurous to find a new, hybrid form that lay > between
role-playing and gamebooks. This is the sort of thing that > Hogshead's James
Wallis is currently aiming for (if you haven't heard > of Baron Munchausen:
ASK!). Right, I'm asking. That's to say, I've heard of Baron Munchausen, but
I've got no idea what Hogshead are up to. Graham Hart gh115@hermes.cam.ac.uk
From: rafe stewart
Subject: [LW] LW&GS To: kaiwisdom@world.std.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: kaiwisdom-approval@world.std.com
Precedence: list Reply-To: rafe stewart
I have recently come across a small "cache" of LW & GS books and I'd like to put
them on offer for anyone who's interested (the conditions are as per the Lyris
Trading Post specifications): LW3 (UK) Fair LW4 (UK) Fair LW6 (UK) Fair LW6 (UK)
Good LW7 (UK) Fair LW19 (US) Near Perfect GS2 (UK) Fair GS2 (UK) Fair GS3 (UK)
Fair GS3 (US) Fair GS4 (UK) Fair Magnamund Companion Poor If anyone's
interested, mail me at: birchbaston@yahoo.com and I'll get back with prices etc.
Rafe -----Original Message----- From: Jam Norman
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Date: 30 August 1999 23:36 Subject: Re: Fabled Lands (RE: interactive fiction
vs. gamebooks) >The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
> > >-->How do you others store/display your stash? >> > > >I store mine in a
fairly uninteresting way. I have a shelf with all of my >books on in order. I'll
miss them at university - I can't be bothered to >take them all. > > C'mon, half
the fun of university was trying to work out how to get your entire collection
hundreds of miles across land or sea without paying a fortune. Well, there were
actually quite a few other interesting bits as I recall through that drunken
haze that was my university education, but at least keeping your mind active by
working out ingenious travel methods shows that all that money that
government/parents/banks put into your education wasn't entirely wasted.
Incidentally, just in case anyone really is interested in how everyone stores
their books, the older set (ie the one where half the books have a used
adventure sheet/torn pages and covers etc) are in a 10 foot antique
glass-fronted bookcase, together with other assorted FF stuff - models,
ornaments, a brass owl (first item the Oracle wants in FF36) while I have
another unread set (except for particularly rare ones) stored away safely in
nice, individual comic bags. Don't know why, but it seemed like a good idea at
the time to put them in the attic together with my 5m by 3m model of Port
Blacksand (okay, so I had a lot of time and a lot of empty cereal boxes on my
hands when I was a kid). Chris From: "J. Harris"
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: Re: Impossible endings In-Reply-To: <199908300715.RAA28306@eureka.ballarat.edu.au>
Message-ID:
MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Fighting
Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com Thanks Nathan, Anyhow,
just to quibble a bit, when you say you have to use the pendant "where you
shouldn't be allowed to" isn't that a mistake per se? ahoy, Jason On Mon, 30 Aug
1999, Nathan P MAHNEY wrote: > The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
> > Send reply to: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
> Date sent: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 00:14:58 -0700 (PDT) > From: "J. Harris"
> To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Impossible endings > > > The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List -
http://www.fightingfantasy.com > > > > Hello Nathan, > > > > One more question
here. . . Darren Blizzard confirmed there was a > > mistake in > > the
Australian version . . . are you saying there is also a mistake in the > > UK
version, or just that I was using a certain item code at the wrong > > place?
One thing--I don't remember if it was even at the orb that I tried > > that
code, but I went to the spot that I seem to recall being directed > > towards .
. . anyhow, do let me know if there was UK error. Was this your > > 2nd time
revisiting the book? > > > I'm Australian as well, so my version is the same as
Darren's. I > don't really recall there being any mistakes as such, just that
you > have to use the pendant in a place where you shouldn't be allowed > to.
Apart from that it works fine. The description you gave me > seemed as though
you were using an item in the wrong place, I > think. > > As for how many times
I've revisited this book, don't ask. It is > absolutely my favourite FF ever,
and I've read it a lot. It is my first > time for a while though, as I took a
long hiatus from gamebooks > over the last few years. > > I hope this helps! > >
- Nathan Mahney - > From: Darren Blizzard
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: RE:FF Authors Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:47:38 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com Basically,
the question was did you write (or co-write) any of the FF's that were published
? As mentioned, the name rings a bell but my books have been in storage for that
long that I have forgotton most of the authors, illustrators, even what most of
the books looked like. In a way that's good I suppose as I can reread them as if
starting from scratch. Even Sorcery! is starting to get hazy... Regards, Darren
Blizzard From: Darren Blizzard
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: RE: Creature Of Havoc mistake Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:53:41 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type:
text/plain The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
Geetings Jason/Nathan, I cannot wait to get my gamebooks from storage to shed
some light on this one. I do recall the insert though, and I can vaguely
remember scribbling something out in the book (a numerical page reference I am
sure) and replacing it with the one on the insert in blue pen. I remember being
appalled that I had to scribble something into my FF !! However, I also recall
that once reading the book in the order that the change mentioned, it made a
hell of a lot more sense that than the location it originally directed you to.
In about 1 or 2 weeks (depends when the builder finishes my damn house), I shall
have access and attempt to confirm the mystery here. Regards, Darren Blizzard
From: "Jason Valasek"
To: kaiwisdom@world.std.com Subject: [LW] Agarash and Tagazin Date: Mon, 30 Aug
1999 16:34:26 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Sender: kaiwisdom-approval@world.std.com Precedence: list Reply-To: "Jason
Valasek"
We all know that Tagazin is a demonlord (as in 'Demonlord Tagazin'). That's
obvious. But at the end of GS#4, Tanith refers to Agarash the Damned as 'Demonlord
Agarash.' Does that make Tagazin and Agarash equal in rank among the forces of
Naar? Agarash seems so much more powerful that that milky-white puppy with the
big teeth. Night Owl From: "Marian D. Perera"
Organization: University of Texas at Austin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95;
I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: BLOODBONES References: <199908302225.QAA26219@mail3.cadvision.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The
Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com Mark J. Popp
wrote: > The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com > >
At 08:25 AM 8/30/99 -0700, you wrote: > >DOES ANYONE KNOW WHO WROTE
"BLOODBONES", WHAT IT'S ABOUT, AND IF THE FF > >WRITERS ARE ON THE MAILING LIST,
AND EITHER THE ONE WHO WROTE > >"BLOODBONES" IS READING THIS OR IF SOMEONE WHO
KNOWS HIM (OR HER?) - > >THEN IS THERE ANY CHANCE I COULD GET MY HANDS ON THE
FINISHED > >MANUSCRIPT?? OR A PHOTOCOPY OR SOMETHING??? > > Red Alert! There is
a special page on Bloodbones > that
will answer all your > questions. Also check the FAQ for some other background
info. In short, it > was never published. It probably doesn't exist, except in
name. (Marian) So no one knows what the plot was about, or if it wrapped the
series up neatly or featured our favorite villains? In other words, it's a
closed book? :-) From: Darren Blizzard
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: RE: Paul Mason Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:04:25 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com There I go
again, posting to the list and not checking the other mails first. If only I had
such reflexes when I was in Fang that time....anyway...ok...the Paul Mason name
ringing a bell is now confirmed. Sorry Paul, my brain cells seem to be decaying
a bit too quickly :-) Oh, and I loved the Riddling Reaver concept but never had
anyone to play it with.....did you ever consider making that a gamebook at the
time...or was it always a goal to create the FF role playing scenario ? Regards,
Darren Blizzard From: "Marian D. Perera"
Organization: University of Texas at Austin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95;
I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: Re: Storage and transportation References:
<001801bef33b$d5013a00$512e63c3@L.Shaw> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
> Incidentally, just in case anyone really is interested in how everyone >
stores their books, the older set (ie the one where half the books have a > used
adventure sheet/torn pages and covers etc) are in a 10 foot antique >
glass-fronted bookcase, together with other assorted FF stuff - models, >
ornaments, a brass owl (first item the Oracle wants in FF36) while I have >
another unread set (except for particularly rare ones) stored away safely in >
nice, individual comic bags. Don't know why, but it seemed like a good idea > at
the time to put them in the attic together with my 5m by 3m model of Port >
Blacksand (okay, so I had a lot of time and a lot of empty cereal boxes on > my
hands when I was a kid). > > Chris (Marian) I have a habit of taking all my FF
books down from the shelves periodically and putting them down on the carpet,
side by side and in rows - they really have an impact when you see them all
together - the bright colors and shiny metallic lettering. Lately the carpet
space has shrunk... But that's a great idea, to have items mentioned in the
books stored along with the collection. I think I'll have a red clay hand, some
mad-mad berries and a sealed bottle of black liquid....laser swords are
notoriously hard to acquire.... From: Darren Blizzard
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: RE: Storing gamebooks Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:38:20 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
"How do you others store/display your stash?" I have collected comics for many
years and have about 13,000 of them. They are all stored in special comic bags
that are designed not to have any of the chemicals in the bag get through on to
the comic, causing damage over time like discoloration. I then place a backing
board behind the comic to keep it straight and bend free. Then about 200 comics
fit into a specially designed box that you can get from comic shops. The comic
bags come in many shapes and sizes to cater for the different periods of comics
that have been out over the years. Perhaps some adaptation of this can be used
for FF fans. I know a lot of my FF's have started to yellow a little. At least
this way they are airtight and you can handle them without risk of
bending/dirtying them. Just a thought. By the way...I quoted what I was talking
about this time :-) Regards, Darren Blizzard From: Darren Blizzard
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: RE: Other FF authors on this mailing list and rebirth of the fad Date:
Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:16:29 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail
Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Fighting
Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com As quoted by Paul Mason
--> "Nathan Page is really Keith Martin, and Robert La Valleee was none other
than Ian Livingstone himself!" Well, this is obviously written toungue in cheek
but you can never tell with you devious FF authors. Anyway, we have seen plenty
of fads come and go, only to come back again years later for another run. I have
heard on this mailing list game books described as a fad, which I guess it was
in some ways. Anybody think it's the sort of fad, or one of those fads, that
could potentially become big again ? Personally, its seems that there is a lot
of interest in this genre around the net, not including this mailing list.
Perhaps its people like us that may possibly spark a rebirth ? Please don't tell
me I am deluding myself. And also....anyone remember those "You are an
interplanetary spy" books ? They had these really cool pictures in them with all
sorts of puzzles and illusions and other stuff in them. I saw in Mark popps web
page (see I do go there !! :-)) a list of all gamebooks and they were on there
and I had totally forgotton about them, and though they are vague in my memory
(who knows what happened to my copies) I do remember enjoying them at the time.
Any thoughts on these issues ? Regards, Darren Blizzard From: "J. Harris"
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: RE: Creature Of Havoc mistake In-Reply-To:
<2137CA65666BD4119D7600902776711E0687@MAGNA> Message-ID:
MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Fighting
Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com Excellent. . . I await
further enlightenment! On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, Darren Blizzard wrote: > The
Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com > > Geetings
Jason/Nathan, > > I cannot wait to get my gamebooks from storage to shed some
light on > this one. I do recall the insert though, and I can vaguely remember >
scribbling something out in the book (a numerical page reference I am > sure)
and replacing it with the one on the insert in blue pen. I > remember being
appalled that I had to scribble something into my FF !! > However, I also recall
that once reading the book in the order that the > change mentioned, it made a
hell of a lot more sense that than the > location it originally directed you to.
In about 1 or 2 weeks (depends > when the builder finishes my damn house), I
shall have access and > attempt to confirm the mystery here. > > Regards, > >
Darren Blizzard From: "Ryan O'Sullivan"
Subject: Re: [LW] Agarash and Tagazin To: kaiwisdom@world.std.com MIME-Version:
1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Sender: kaiwisdom-approval@world.std.com Precedence: list Reply-To: "Ryan
O'Sullivan"
Indeed. Apart from the qualitative assessment of the power of Agarash and
Tagazin, there is another piece of evidence regarding their relative standing.
In book 17, the Deathlord of Ixia is said to have been a lieutenant of Agarash.
In the same book, Tagazin shows himself to be a minion of the Deathlord. I guess
Agarash needs a more grandiose title than just "Demonlord". Bold Strider ---
Jason Valasek wrote: > We all know that Tagazin is a
demonlord (as in > 'Demonlord Tagazin'). That's > obvious. But at the end of
GS#4, Tanith refers to > Agarash the Damned as > 'Demonlord Agarash.' Does that
make Tagazin and > Agarash equal in rank among > the forces of Naar? Agarash
seems so much more > powerful that that > milky-white puppy with the big teeth.
> > Night Owl From: Duane Bowker
Subject: Re: [LW] Agarash and Tagazin Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:09:33 -0700
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to
8bit by europe.std.com id WAA19686 Sender: kaiwisdom-approval@world.std.com
Precedence: list Reply-To: Duane Bowker
>We all know that Tagazin is a demonlord (as in 'Demonlord Tagazin'). That's
>obvious. But at the end of GS#4, Tanith refers to Agarash the Damned as >'Demonlord
Agarash.' Does that make Tagazin and Agarash equal in rank among >the forces of
Naar? Agarash seems so much more powerful that that >milky-white puppy with the
big teeth. > Night Owl Tanith could be using an improper title, demonlord could
not be a title at all, or it may have been that Tagazin was once as powerful as
Agarash and thus had to be cast into the Pit of Eternal Pain for disrupting
Aon's balance, and when he came out he was much less powerful, or maybe he has
powers that have not been revealed. Sam aka Star Lion From: Paul Mason
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:48:01 +0900 To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Subject: Re: Baron Munchausen In-Reply-To:
MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AL-Mail32 Version 1.01 Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
G Hart wrote on Aug 31: >The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
> >Paul wrote: > >> It might have been more adventurous to find a new, hybrid
form that lay >> between role-playing and gamebooks. This is the sort of thing
that >> Hogshead's James Wallis is currently aiming for (if you haven't heard >>
of Baron Munchausen: ASK!). > >Right, I'm asking. That's to say, I've heard of
Baron Munchausen, but I've >got no idea what Hogshead are up to. 'The
Extraordinary Adventures of Baron Munchausen' is an innovative parlour game in
which players take turns to tell each other tall tales, and challenge each other
using a betting mechanic. It's a very well written and amusing game, and it's
quite cheap (about 6 quid). The only problem is that it claims to be a
role-playing game, which it isn't. Still, it comes heartily recommended. ----
Best wishes Paul Mason Outlaws/imazine http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~panurge To: "The
Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Subject: Re: Other FF authors on this mailing list and rebirth of the fad From:
Paul Mason
In-Reply-To: <2137CA65666BD4119D7600902776711E0691@MAGNA> MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: AL-Mail32 Version 1.01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The
Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com Darren Blizzard
wrote on Aug 31: >The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
> >As quoted by Paul Mason --> "Nathan Page is really Keith Martin, and >Robert
La Valleee was none other than Ian Livingstone himself!" >Well, this is
obviously written toungue in cheek but you can never tell >with you devious FF
authors. Anyway, we have seen plenty of fads come >and go, only to come back
again years later for another run. I have >heard on this mailing list game books
described as a fad, which I guess >it was in some ways. Anybody think it's the
sort of fad, or one of >those fads, that could potentially become big again ?
Obviously I'd hope it could happen. I think, though, that it's more likely that
gamebooks could become 'medium' again, rather than 'big'. When they were big,
they were very big! ---- Best wishes Paul Mason Outlaws/imazine http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~panurge
From: Paul Mason
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:57:02 +0900 To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Subject: Re: best and worst gamebooks of all time In-Reply-To:
MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AL-Mail32 Version 1.01 Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
Simon Smith wrote on Aug 31: >The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
> >On Mon 30 Aug, Paul Mason wrote: >> Of the others, Necklace of Skulls was
also good, but the others drove >> their editor (a good friend of mine) nuts,
and pretty well severed a >> friendship! Perhaps best avoided. > >I read the
first six - were there ever any more than that? Not published: only the Red
Dragon Pass I proposed - that you later refer to as drivel. I only wrote about
60 paragraphs of that. >Anyway, you've probably stated this several times
before, but were you >involved in writing Heart of Ice? No, but I played in the
role-playing game it was based on. ---- Best wishes Paul Mason Outlaws/imazine
http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~panurge Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:27:59 +0900 To: "The
Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Subject: Re: Paul Mason From: Paul Mason
In-Reply-To: <2137CA65666BD4119D7600902776711E068A@MAGNA> MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: AL-Mail32 Version 1.01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The
Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com Darren Blizzard
wrote on Aug 31: >The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
> >There I go again, posting to the list and not checking the other mails
>first. If only I had such reflexes when I was in Fang that
>time....anyway...ok...the Paul Mason name ringing a bell is now >confirmed.
Sorry Paul, my brain cells seem to be decaying a bit too >quickly :-) Oh, and I
loved the Riddling Reaver concept but never had >anyone to play it with.....did
you ever consider making that a gamebook >at the time...or was it always a goal
to create the FF role playing >scenario ? The only reason Steve Williams and I
got into writing gamebooks (other than the fact that we'd been editing Warlock)
was that we were both role-players, and Steve J wanted contributors to a
collection of FF role-playing scenarios. We managed to propose a set of four and
grabbed the whole book (maybe this explains why Steve J farted around with it so
much, and messed up the cover). There was absolutely no thought in our minds of
making the Riddling Reaver a gamebook or even, while we were writing it, of the
possibility that we'd go on to write gamebooks. We thought our fame and fortune
would be made from a succession of role-playing books which would inspire a new
craze sweeping the land and... Well, you get the picture. We didn't even get the
chance to write Dungeoneer, which was a bit of a bummer because at least I was
actually playing and designing role-playing games on a regular basis. I think
Dungeoneer suffers from its authors' lack of realisation that it had been too
long since they'd actually played for real. And although RR's sales were good
(30,000 in its first 2 months), it wasn't regarded as a great success in the
scheme of things. So we took the opportunity to write gamebooks instead. And I'd
just about figured out how to do it with Magehunter, by which time the series
was on the brink of cancellation. But then, I was probably unusual: I couldn't
bring myself to be a hack, and I actually cared about what could be done with
the gamebook medium. So I don't have the excuse that most FF authors have: if my
books are crap it's because of the limitations of my talent, rather than because
I was just churning them out (good thing too - you can't make a living writing
FF books!). ---- Best wishes Paul Mason Outlaws/imazine http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~panurge
From: Darren Blizzard
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: RE: Paul Mason and riddling reaver Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:01:40
+1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
- http://www.fightingfantasy.com Paul Mason wrote --> "maybe this explains why
Steve J farted around with it so much, and messed up the cover)" Er...I um
actually quite liked the cover... He also wrote --> "So I don't have the excuse
that most FF authors have: if my books are crap it's because of the limitations
of my talent, rather than because I was just churning them out" It's good to see
some modesty here. You might expect an FF author on the FF mailing list to
perhaps get ahead of themselves. Somewhat. But you obviously don't fall into
that category, and its great that an "insider" like yourself can spend the time
discussing issues with the fans and giving some inside information. Also, its
obvious that you were a fan yourself (and still are) anyway. Having said all
that, though I didn't love Slaves of the Abyss, I still thouroghly enjoyed it.
Black Vein Prophecy was quite quirky and I thought that it was quite good. The
Crimson Tide has been a bit maligned and I think unfairly. Mage Hunter was
excellent and probably my favorite of your works. The Riddling Reaver was wasted
on me as I said, I had no one to play it with --> great concept - if only it was
a gamebook :-) This is not a suck up job by the way. They are my honest opinions
of your works. I didn't think they were among the greatest of Fighting Fantasy
works, although maybe Mage Hunter would be up there, but certainly better than
many others and I enjoyed reading them. Beneath Nightmare Castle, for example,
makes me almost want to rip the book up. I think based on the level of talent
(that you say you don't have) that I have seen from your existing books, I'd be
more than happy to read more of your works had the series continued. BY the way,
not having the books on hand, who did write Beneath Nightmare Castle ? I need to
say some negative things about them because all this complimentary stuff is
making me sick ! :-) Regards, Darren Blizzard From: "Aardvark of Doom"
To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Subject: Re: Paul Mason and riddling reaver Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 04:53:26
+0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft
MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
-----Original Message----- From: Darren Blizzard
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Date: 31 August 1999 03:59 Subject: RE: Paul Mason and riddling reaver >BY the
way, not having the books on hand, who did write Beneath >Nightmare Castle ? I
need to say some negative things about them >because all this complimentary
stuff is making me sick ! :-) > >Regards, > >Darren Blizzard Peter Darvill-Evans
wrote it - don't hear much about him these days (or ever) or is that just me
missing out on the great works of PDE. I know what you mean about ripping the
book up though. It is truly terrible. No redeaming features at all in my opinion
(although I was surprised to see that someone on the list disagrees with this
statement. At least Paul Mason's explanation of the mighty S.J. messing around
with the cover of Riddling Reaver does explain why he bears no relation to other
illustrations and descriptions. Reply-To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 00:07:21 -0400 From: Michael Taylor
Subject: RE: Impossible endings Sender: Michael Taylor
To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Message-ID: <199908310007_MC2-8300-F18E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline The
Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com Message text
written by "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>> I think technology, as
well as the ignorance >>>>>>>>>>of parents, that have contributed to not only
the death of FF, but to >>>>>>>>>>childrens sense of creativity and imagination.
Seems kindof an odd statement to make on an Internet FF newgroup! Well,
technology may be responsible for the death of FF but it's also responsible for
my renewed interest and ability to enjoy, as well as completing my collection -
something I couldn't have done without technology! For my money, technology is
responsible for the ressurection of FF! >>>>>>>>>>bit. State that you used the
"Internet" or "Microsoft Encarta" as a >>>>>>>>>>reference and boom, 2 hours
later you are finished. It really is >>>>>>>>>>atrocious....or am I just getting
old !!???! :-) Yeah! Isn't that wonderful! In other words, just because the
physical act of research takes alot less time, you can still learn twice as
much! Michael From: Michael Taylor
Subject: Baron Munchausen Sender: Michael Taylor
To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Message-ID: <199908310007_MC2-8300-F19C@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline The
Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com Message text
written by "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List" >Right, I'm asking. That's to
say, I've heard of Baron Munchausen, but I've got no idea what Hogshead are up
to. Graham Hart gh115@hermes.cam.ac.uk < They just released Marianburg -
finally! very good stuff! Michael From: Paul Mason
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:56:59 +0900 To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Subject: Re: Paul Mason and riddling reaver In-Reply-To:
<2137CA65666BD4119D7600902776711E069D@MAGNA> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer:
AL-Mail32 Version 1.01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The Fighting
Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com Darren Blizzard wrote on
Aug 31: >Also, its obvious that you were a fan yourself (and still are) anyway.
Nope. Hated the things. No one was more surprised than I when I found myself
writing them. >Black Vein Prophecy was quite quirky and I >thought that it was
quite good. The Crimson Tide has been a bit maligned >and I think unfairly.
Black Vein Prophecy suffered from me and Steve W being at cross-purposes. The
accusation that has been levelled at us - that we were copying Creature of Havoc
- is unjustified, as we had never read Creature of Havoc. But other accusations
are probably justified. Much of the maligning of The Crimson Tide is justified.
I'd probably malign it more than anyone - I knew what I was trying to do, and
therefore knew how far short of that I failed. Basically I managed to insert
myself up my own rectum, never a good place to write gamebooks. >Mage Hunter was
excellent and probably my >favorite of your works. Modesty aside, I have to
agree with this assessment (even though the body switching didn't work as well
as I had hoped). It's the only one of my books that I can read myself. >BY the
way, not having the books on hand, who did write Beneath >Nightmare Castle ? I
need to say some negative things about them >because all this complimentary
stuff is making me sick ! :-) Wasn't it Peter Darvill-Evans, my esteemed former
boss at Games Workshop Publications, and subsequently editor of the Dr Who line
for Virgin (and another line of smutty books, but let's not go into that)? I
find it hard to criticise Peter, as he also enabled Ian Marsh's Doctor Who RPG
Time Lord to see print. This is a new development, of course. When he was my
boss I found it all too easy to criticise him... ---- Best wishes Paul Mason
Outlaws/imazine http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~panurge To: "The Fighting Fantasy
Mailing List"
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:11:06 -0700 From: "Jason Hughitt"
Message-ID:
Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: RE:
Paul Mason and riddling reaver X-Sender-Ip: 208.26.132.165 Organization:
Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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"Mage Hunter was excellent and probably my >favorite of your works. The Riddling
Reaver was wasted on me as I said, >I had no one to play it with --> great
concept - if only it was a >gamebook :-) > >This is not a suck up job by the
way. They are my honest opinions of >your works. I didn't think they were among
the greatest of Fighting >Fantasy works, although maybe Mage Hunter would be up
there, but >certainly better than many others and I enjoyed reading them." >
>Regards, > >Darren Blizzard > It seems to me that over the past few months,
many people have had strong opinions about Magehunter...and it is very polar at
that...they either love it or hate it... Unfortunately, I have yet to read it
but it is on my "to-do" list. I don't have any complaints about any of the books
I've read...which unfortunately is only up to #14 right now...just got the whole
set recently and am working my way through each one... I would think that just
the fact these were written would please most of us on the list...granted, some
may be better than others but I think we should all be thankful for the ones
that were published :).... Anyway, just my two bits for the day.... Jason
Hughitt To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
From: "Mark J. Popp"
Subject: Re: BLOODBONES In-Reply-To: <37CBA756.EBCC8933@mail.utexas.edu>
References: <199908302225.QAA26219@mail3.cadvision.com> Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List -
http://www.fightingfantasy.com At 06:58 AM 8/31/99 -0300, you wrote: >(Marian)
So no one knows what the plot was about, or if it wrapped the series >up neatly
or featured our favorite villains? In other words, it's a closed >book? :-)
Since it doesn't exist, it's really hard to say. ;-) However, since Mr. Mason
indicated his next gamebook, The Wailing World, would be 60-something in the
series, there is sufficient reason to assume they weren't going to wrap up the
series at #60. **************************************************************
Mark J. Popp | poppmj@cadvision.com | Calgary, Alberta, Canada
************************************************************** From: "Nathan P
MAHNEY"
Organization: University of Ballarat To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 17:20:55 +1000 Subject: Re: Impossible endings Priority:
normal References: <199908300715.RAA28306@eureka.ballarat.edu.au> In-reply-to:
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List -
http://www.fightingfantasy.com Send reply to: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing
List"
Date sent: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:14:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Harris"
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: Re: Impossible endings > The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
> > Thanks Nathan, > > Anyhow, just to quibble a bit, when you say > you have to
use the pendant "where you shouldn't be allowed to" > isn't that a mistake per
se? > I've often wondered as much. I've always just chalked it up to Steve
Jackson being a devious bastard. - Nathan Mahney - From: Pascal.Roduit@swisscom.com
Message-ID:
To: kaiwisdom@world.std.com Subject: RE: [LW] allies? Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999
10:53:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9)
Content-Type: text/plain Sender: kaiwisdom-approval@world.std.com Precedence:
list Reply-To: Pascal.Roduit@swisscom.com > On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, Jason Valasek
wrote: > > > >is anyone assigned to compile a list of allies in the gamebooks? >
> > > But don't they all die? The only ally of Lone Wolf that hasn't been > >
seriously pestered by the forces of Darkness is Gwynian. Rimoah gets > >
abducted in "Skull of Agarash," Banedon is kidnaped in 14, and everyone > else >
> dies: Rhygar, Cyrilus, Paido, Sebb Jarel, Lord Adamas, etc., plus Storm > Hawk
> > and Petra if you want to involve the LOLW series. > > > > It's like the
Lassie Syndrome. Do you really think little Timmy Martin > > would have gotten
into all that trouble if it wasn't for that accursed > > collie? > > Prarg makes
off pretty well. (Okay, he's almost beheaded, but how bad is > that really?) > >
Ben > > Let's not forger Lone Wolf's best ally, the Magician Banedon, who
overlived many diffcult encounters (like in book 5 facing the Kraans, Gloks and
Vordaks in the sky of Vassagonia) and in book 14, when he got kidnapped by Cadak
in the city-fortress of Kaag. From: G Hart
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: Re: BLOODBONES X-Sender: GH115@imap.hermes.cam.ac.uk In-Reply-To:
<00cf01bef391$d06c0460$aa6447c1@funcom.com> Message-ID:
MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Fighting
Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com On the subject of
Bloodbones, > As for the author-question: I think this is an interesting one, as
it could > say a lot about the style of the gamebook. Would it be hard to find
out? > Maybe, but on the other hand: surely records must still exist at Puffin?
I > guess that depends on how far the project came before termination. Would >
such info be classified? Hmmm... Maybe I'll just email Ian and ask him. :-) Paul
will know much more than me about the procedure and timetable involved in
proposing gamebooks, writing them, submitting them, bickering over the contents,
and so forth, but I would be very surprised if Bloodbones does not exist
somewhere, in some form, even if not actually completed. "Bloodbones" is
presumably not a title that someone in the editorial office at Puffin made up;
it must surely be the title of a gamebook proposal that some author sent in. The
question of interest to us is then how close the manuscript for Bloodbones was
brought to completion before the unknown author was informed that his services
would not be required after all. There was certainly enough time for Bloodbones
to be written: FF59 was published in December 1995. In October 1996 I wrote to
Puffin to ask what was going on, and, well, I wasn't really told, except to say
that FF60 "Bloodbones" was due to be published in early 1998. When exactly the
decision was formally taken to cancel the series, I don't know. It had been
terminated by October 1998, when I wrote to Puffin again, but what we can say,
at the very least, is that the FF series was still notionally alive for a year
after the publication of FF59, easily sufficient time for FF60 to be completed -
and yet it could just be that FF60 was only ever a proposal, existing only in
outline, the actual composition never actually begun because the author was
never offered a contract. The one definite way of finding out how near
completion Bloodbones came would be to ask the (potential) author. How easy this
would be would depend upon how readily Puffin would be willing to divulge the
identity of that person. I would imagine that Ian L. and Steve J. also know who
it was. Would Marc Gascoigne also not plausibly know? I mean, there are
possibilities if you are determined to find out. Graham Hart gh115@hermes.cam.ac.uk
From: Mr W
Subject: RE: Paul Mason and riddling reaver To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing
List
MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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"Beneath Nightmare Castle" was written by Peter Darvill-Evans, who I think wrote
some other of the not very best FF books. It's not the worst FF book (anyone who
thinks that obviously hasn't read "Sky Lord" and "Rebel Planet") - but yes -
it's confusing, difficult without really challenging you, boring, not especially
well-written and definitely NOT recommended. There, is that negative enough for
you... > BY the way, not having the books on hand, who did > write Beneath >
Nightmare Castle ? I need to say some negative > things about them > because all
this complimentary stuff is making me > sick ! :-) > > Regards, > > Darren
Blizzard > From: Simon Smith
Subject: Re: Paul Mason and riddling reaver To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing
List
In-Reply-To: <000e01bef364$62e4e600$4a2f63c3@L.Shaw> Message-ID:
MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-header: Mailing
from the Varèse-Worshipper's Convention 1999 (VWC99) X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel
[ver 1.53] The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com On
Tue 31 Aug, Aardvark of Doom wrote: > I know what you mean about ripping the
book [Beneath Nightmare > Castle] up though. It is truly terrible. No redeaming
features at all > in my opinion (although I was surprised to see that someone on
the > list disagrees with this statement. Well I certainly do! I'll certainly
concede that it isn't the finest of them all, and that Crypt of the Sorcerer -
which came just after it - and Creature of Havoc which preceded it are far
greater achievements. However, I did enjoy this book, and still do. All IMHO, of
course. Simon -- Rachmaninov website: http://website.lineone.net/~simon_smith/
Mailing list: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/rachmaninov E-mail me:
simon_smith@lineone.net ICQ UIN: 17019720 From: LColli6882@aol.com Message-ID:
<13e4975c.24fd5aa4@aol.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:19:48 EDT Subject: G'day
from the far north! To: ttaylor@tps.vic.edu.au MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL
3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Good to hear from you! I was beginning to think you had all
forgotten us! Congratulations on turning 18 Tristan. We are all doing fine here.
The boys begin the new school year tomorrow, they are both looking forward to
it. Josh will do year 12 this year, Justin year 8. Both are adjusting well to
their braces. Justin bleached his hair, looks startlingly good, though makes him
look older. Hopefully he won't like it so much as to make it the norm. The trip
to London was great, spent lots of time sightseeing, there is so MUCH history to
absorb there. Had fun just to get away with Ray. It is great that we can leave
the kids like that, but always a relief to get back home to them. We are
beginning to see the end of summer here, are having cool damp days. Oh well,
lots to look forward to with the promise of snow. Melissa is still working at
KMart, enjoying it for the most part. Got her a car early July so I could have
mine back. She begins school mid September, is looking forward to it. I haven't
been too productive this summer, look foward to getting back to my sewing when
the kids clear out. Best wishes to you all, take care. Lynda To: "The Fighting
Fantasy Mailing List"
From: Marian Perera
Subject: what was wrong with "rebel planet"? The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List -
http://www.fightingfantasy.com >The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
> >"Beneath Nightmare Castle" was written by Peter Darvill-Evans, who I >think
wrote some other of the not very best FF books. It's not the >worst FF book
(anyone who thinks that obviously hasn't read "Sky Lord" >and "Rebel Planet") -
but yes - it's confusing, difficult without >really challenging you, boring, not
especially well-written and >definitely NOT recommended. There, is that negative
enough for you... That was a pretty good book - challenging, interesting and I
loved the "virtual reality" bit where the computer itself takes you on ... From:
Mr W
Subject: Re: what was wrong with "rebel planet"? To: The Fighting Fantasy
Mailing List
MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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well; the art was TERRIBLE - worst of any of the FF books the
storyline/subplots/various encounters were either obvious and boring, or
confusing without being original although even this one's OK, all the FF books
are OK except "Sky Lord" which is well and away below any of them. --- Marian
Perera wrote: > The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - >
http://www.fightingfantasy.com > > >The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - >
http://www.fightingfantasy.com > > > >"Beneath Nightmare Castle" was written by
Peter > Darvill-Evans, who I > >think wrote some other of the not very best FF >
books. It's not the > >worst FF book (anyone who thinks that obviously > hasn't
read "Sky Lord" > >and "Rebel Planet") - but yes - it's confusing, > difficult
without > >really challenging you, boring, not especially > well-written and >
>definitely NOT recommended. There, is that negative > enough for you... > >
That was a pretty good book - challenging, > interesting and I loved the >
"virtual reality" bit where the computer itself > takes you on ... > > To: "The
Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
From: Marian Perera
Subject: Re: what was wrong with "rebel planet"? The Fighting Fantasy Mailing
List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com >The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List -
http://www.fightingfantasy.com > >well; >the art was TERRIBLE - worst of any of
the FF books (Marian) Even "beneath Nightmare Castle?" >the
storyline/subplots/various encounters were either obvious and >boring, or
confusing without being original (Marian) Did any of the others have a "computer
tempts you with wealth, power, etc..." scenario? This one is my favorite, mostly
because I fell for it the first time... >although even this one's OK, all the FF
books are OK except "Sky Lord" >which is well and away below any of them. > >---
Marian Perera wrote: >> The Fighting Fantasy Mailing
List - >> http://www.fightingfantasy.com >> >> >The Fighting Fantasy Mailing
List - >> http://www.fightingfantasy.com >> > >> >"Beneath Nightmare Castle" was
written by Peter >> Darvill-Evans, who I >> >think wrote some other of the not
very best FF >> books. It's not the >> >worst FF book (anyone who thinks that
obviously >> hasn't read "Sky Lord" >> >and "Rebel Planet") - but yes - it's
confusing, >> difficult without >> >really challenging you, boring, not
especially >> well-written and >> >definitely NOT recommended. There, is that
negative >> enough for you... >> >> That was a pretty good book - challenging,
>> interesting and I loved the >> "virtual reality" bit where the computer
itself >> takes you on ... >> From: "J. Harris"
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: Re: Favourite / least favourite FF books In-Reply-To:
<199908310755.RAA05328@eureka.ballarat.edu.au> Message-ID:
MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Fighting
Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com I liked the gambling in
Citadel of Chaos, and other FF books. .but inC of D. there was "Knifey, Knifey".
. . a classic eh? On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, Nathan P MAHNEY wrote: > The Fighting
Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com > > After much discussion
and general hoohah regarding everyone's > favourite books, I felt perhaps it was
time that I put forth my own > opinions on my personal favourites. Note that the
only book I've > read past 40-odd is Return To Firetop Mountain. > > First off,
Warlock Of Firetop Mountain. This is the book that got > me interested in FF,
role-playing and fantasy in general. More than > any other, this book has shaped
my life and my interests to the > point where they are today. A triffic book. >
> Creature Of Havoc is, without a doubt, the best FF ever. Several of > my
friends disagree with me on this, but that's because the stupid > sods can't
finish it. Also a triffic book. > > House Of Hell is great, certainly the best
of those books not set on > Titan. Any book that features a guy with goat heads
stuck to his > shoulders gets the thumbs up from me. Triffic, had me crapping >
my pants for months. > > Deathtrap Dungeon is the classic archetypal FF. Some
really > good death paragraphs in this one, always a bonus, plus you get >
rewarded for hurling insults. Triffic. > > Citadel Of Chaos. Wheelies. Triffic.
Does anyone else think a > Saturday morning cartoon based on the Wheelies would
have been > an instant smash? > > Incidentally, I'm going to put my hand up and
say that I enjoyed > both Beneath Nightmare Castle and Chasms Of Malice. >
Admittedly Chasms does tend to kill you off a little arbitrarily, > though. Not
triffic, but pretty good nonetheless. > > - Nathan Mahney - > From: "Jason
Valasek"
To: kaiwisdom@world.std.com Subject: [LW] Name coincidences Date: Tue, 31 Aug
1999 12:34:37 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_74945ab5_4742905c$6f8fe394" Sender: kaiwisdom-approval@world.std.com
Precedence: list Reply-To: "Jason Valasek"
A musician from Morocco named Barraka El Fernatshi. A character in the Mortal
Kombat series named Baraka. In Louisiana, there is a florist's shop named
Roark's. In Colorado, there is a Haakon School District. In ancient Babylonia,
there was a place called the Temple of Shamath. A computer company called Ixia
Communications. (Logo attached) An email company called Zantaz. (Logo attached)
Plus I think Naar actually is a word in a Scandanavian language. Anyone out
there know for sure? Night Owl Attachment Converted: H:\ixia.jpg Attachment
Converted: H:\zantaz.gif From: "Aardvark of Doom"
To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Subject: Re: Crapest gamebook of all time + BLOODBONES Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999
22:45:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft
MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
I appologise now for continuing to bring up the subject of 'Bloodbones', and
I've only been on the list a month or two myself so I don't know how far the
oldtimers got into this discussion, but isn't the 'Blood and bones' of an idea
just the basic starting point upon which the idea can be built, the foundations
if you like, or am I just getting my old cliches mixed up? I know it doesn't
make much sense to put out the name of a book without having written it, but if
Penguin needed a title to put out, this mythical book could be invented, just
until another was actually written (the fans wouldn't have cared as long as a
book came out). I seem to remember this happening before, that the title of an
advertised book was completely different (and not just Plague of the Undead
becoming Island of the Undead), but my memory's not what it used to be, so I
can't even be certain if it was FF (I know it happened with Sherlock Holmes when
certain stories were 'hushed up' for purposes of national security, but I doubt
something like this would really happen with FF - or perhaps Steve and Ian were
more powerful than any of us ever imagined). May your mongoose never fall silent
Chris From: Mr W
Subject: Re: what was wrong with "rebel planet"? To: The Fighting Fantasy
Mailing List
MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
OK OK!! - "Rebel Planet" isn't bad - it may be the 2nd worst after "Sky Lord"
(which I reckon's the only FF book which is actually bad, rather than just not
as good as the others) - but it's still ok/average (definitely not great,
though) the 'tempting you with wealth' thing has been used many times in
"Citadel of Chaos" Balthus Dire offers to let you turn back on your countrymen
for wealth & power in "Crypt of the Sorcerer" if you try and get some gold you
either get crushed in a cavein, or turn into jewellrey yourself (can't remember
which - this is probably from 2 different gamebooks) in "Spectral Stalkers"
Archmage Globus offers you power in exchange for the Aleph in "Creature of
Havoc" on the last paragraph Zharradan Marr tries to trick you by offering you
wealth & power (although admittedly this is just part of the story, as you don't
get a choice and automatically see through him and win, but still the idea's
there) also the Sentinel creature from "Out of the Pit" often uses this trap -
like in "Caverns of the Snow Witch" when if you touch the treasure it attacks
you I'm sure there was something like this in "Temple of Terror", and maybe
something like this hinted subtley in the monk's challenge in "The Crimson Tide"
(and maybe also "Black Vein Prophecy"), but the monk's challenge bit was
confusing, not well written and a bit pretentious and clumsy (as Paul himself
said, he was disappearing up his own ass at the time) I'm sure I know of some
more examples but it's 11pm over here in the UK, I'm tired, and I don't spend
ALL of my time thinking about FF (just most of it) so I'm afraid I'll have to
come back tomorrow morning and respond to more hate mail & abuse (I love it -
keep sending it) oh, and yes "Rebel Planet" artwork is WORSE than "Beneath
Nightmare Castle"... although maybe it's not worse (but just as bad) as "Forest
of Doom" artwork (which had a great cover, but very dodgy interior artwork by an
artist who obviously doesn't realise forests are meant to have trees, combined
with being a bit of an average+ gamebook) ring, not especially > >> well-written
and > >> >definitely NOT recommended. There, is that > negative > >> enough for
you... > >> > >> That was a pretty good book - challenging, > >> interesting and
I loved the > >> "virtual reality" bit where the computer itself > >> takes you
on ... > >> > >> > >> > From: Mr W
Subject: Re: Crapest gamebook of all time + BLOODBONES To: The Fighting Fantasy
Mailing List
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--- Aardvark of Doom wrote: 'Blood and bones' of an > idea
just the basic starting point upon which the > idea can be built, the >
foundations if you like, or am I just getting my old > cliches mixed up? I >
know it doesn't make much sense to put out the name > of a book without having >
written it, but if Penguin needed a title to put > out, this mythical book >
could be invented, just until another was actually The fact that "Plague of the
Undead" became "Island of the Undead" means there was a basic idea there, it
just hadn't been finished yet, which is what is most likely the case with
"Bloodbones" (being given an ISBN number, on lists, etc.) and do you really
think Penguin employees would have the imagination to think up any title better
than "Fantasy Book Thing" ? I don't think they have sufficient respect for FF
fans to consider that they even have the intelligence to be outwitted, but we'd
just fall for anything > written (the fans > wouldn't have cared as long as a
book came out). I > seem to remember this > happening before, that the title of
an advertised > book was completely > different (and not just Plague of the
Undead > becoming Island of the Undead), > but my memory's not what it used to
be, so I can't > even be certain if it was > FF (I know it happened with
Sherlock Holmes when > certain stories were > 'hushed up' for purposes of
national security, but I > doubt something like > this would really happen with
FF - or perhaps Steve > and Ian were more > powerful than any of us ever
imagined). > > May your mongoose never fall silent sorry, it's dead > > Chris
From: "Alan Bartholomew"
To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
References: <19990830152534.6042.rocketmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com>
<005a01bef303$477edb20$670a4382@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: RE:Crapest gamebook of
all time + BLOODBONES Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:47:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express
5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 The
Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com You probably all
know this already but Steve and Ian were the co founders of Games Work Shop, the
company that produces Warhammer stuff ----- Original Message ----- From: Jenn L.
& Svein B.
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 5:18 PM Subject: Re: RE:Crapest gamebook of all
time + BLOODBONES > The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
> > Interesting points. One comment though: > > > Personally, I think Warhammer
stole a lot from FF, but no-one > > noticed because the people who do FF or
Warhammer are > > usually different > > I'm sure most of you know this, but
Graeme Davis, author of "Midnight > Rogue", was also one of the authors of the
many classic Warhammer FRPG > adventures from the 80's (Death on the Reik, Power
Behind the Throne etc.). > > Too bad they never went for a gamebook series
completely set in the > Warhammer world. Now, that could have had potential! > >
Cheers, > Svein > From: "Aardvark of Doom"
To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Subject: Re: what was wrong with "rebel planet"? Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 00:50:43
+0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
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MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
You forgot the 'Will you drink the potion or give it to the slaves' bit in
Slaves of the Abyss (it's not quite tempting you with wealth but it's an offer
to put yourself ahead of the general good) -----Original Message----- From: Mr W
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Date: 31 August 1999 23:02 Subject: Re: what was wrong with "rebel planet"? >The
Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com > >OK OK!! -
"Rebel Planet" isn't bad - it may be the 2nd worst after "Sky >Lord" (which I
reckon's the only FF book which is actually bad, rather >than just not as good
as the others) - but it's still ok/average >(definitely not great, though) >
>the 'tempting you with wealth' thing has been used many times > >in "Citadel of
Chaos" Balthus Dire offers to let you turn back on your >countrymen for wealth &
power > >in "Crypt of the Sorcerer" if you try and get some gold you either get
>crushed in a cavein, or turn into jewellrey yourself (can't remember >which -
this is probably from 2 different gamebooks) > >in "Spectral Stalkers" Archmage
Globus offers you power in exchange for >the Aleph > >in "Creature of Havoc" on
the last paragraph Zharradan Marr tries to >trick you by offering you wealth &
power (although admittedly this is >just part of the story, as you don't get a
choice and automatically see >through him and win, but still the idea's there) >
>also the Sentinel creature from "Out of the Pit" often uses this trap - >like
in "Caverns of the Snow Witch" when if you touch the treasure it >attacks you >
>I'm sure there was something like this in "Temple of Terror", and maybe
>something like this hinted subtley in the monk's challenge in "The >Crimson
Tide" (and maybe also "Black Vein Prophecy"), but the monk's >challenge bit was
confusing, not well written and a bit pretentious and >clumsy (as Paul himself
said, he was disappearing up his own ass at the >time) > >I'm sure I know of
some more examples but it's 11pm over here in the >UK, I'm tired, and I don't
spend ALL of my time thinking about FF (just >most of it) >so I'm afraid I'll
have to come back tomorrow morning and respond to >more hate mail & abuse (I
love it - keep sending it) > >oh, and yes "Rebel Planet" artwork is WORSE than
"Beneath Nightmare >Castle"... although maybe it's not worse (but just as bad)
as "Forest >of Doom" artwork (which had a great cover, but very dodgy interior
>artwork by an artist who obviously doesn't realise forests are meant to >have
trees, combined with being a bit of an average+ gamebook) > > > > > >ring, not
especially >> >> well-written and >> >> >definitely NOT recommended. There, is
that >> negative >> >> enough for you... >> >> >> >> That was a pretty good book
- challenging, >> >> interesting and I loved the >> >> "virtual reality" bit
where the computer itself >> >> takes you on ... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From:
"Aardvark of Doom"
To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Subject: Re: Crapest gamebook of all time + BLOODBONES Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999
00:52:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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The problem is that if Penguin did release FF 60 and called it 'Fantasy Book
Thing' we'd still all be queuing up to buy it. May everyone except Mr W's
mongoose never fall silent Chris -----Original Message----- From: Mr W
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Date: 31 August 1999 23:06 Subject: Re: Crapest gamebook of all time +
BLOODBONES >The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com >
> > >--- Aardvark of Doom wrote: >'Blood and bones' of an
>> idea just the basic starting point upon which the >> idea can be built, the
>> foundations if you like, or am I just getting my old >> cliches mixed up? I
>> know it doesn't make much sense to put out the name >> of a book without
having >> written it, but if Penguin needed a title to put >> out, this mythical
book >> could be invented, just until another was actually > >The fact that
"Plague of the Undead" became "Island of the Undead" >means there was a basic
idea there, it just hadn't been finished yet, >which is what is most likely the
case with "Bloodbones" (being given an >ISBN number, on lists, etc.) > >and do
you really think Penguin employees would have the imagination to >think up any
title better than "Fantasy Book Thing" ? >I don't think they have sufficient
respect for FF fans to consider that >they even have the intelligence to be
outwitted, but we'd just fall for >anything > >> written (the fans >> wouldn't
have cared as long as a book came out). I >> seem to remember this >> happening
before, that the title of an advertised >> book was completely >> different (and
not just Plague of the Undead >> becoming Island of the Undead), >> but my
memory's not what it used to be, so I can't >> even be certain if it was >> FF
(I know it happened with Sherlock Holmes when >> certain stories were >> 'hushed
up' for purposes of national security, but I >> doubt something like >> this
would really happen with FF - or perhaps Steve >> and Ian were more >> powerful
than any of us ever imagined). >> >> May your mongoose never fall silent >
>sorry, it's dead > > >> >> Chris From: Darren Blizzard
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: RE: Favourite / least favourite FF books Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:23:14
+1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
- http://www.fightingfantasy.com In response to Tristans comments regarding his
best and worst :- I cant comment on some of the books you have mentioned, as I
havent read some of them for that long that I cant even remember them. And
despite being a fan since 1984 when I first bought Deathtrap Dungeon (original
dark blue spine) and Starship Traveller (original pale blue spine) (neither of
which I still have damn it), I must confess that I have not read anything from
about 45 onwards due to University study, work, marriage, buiding a house etc. I
have moved that many times in the last 5 years that I feel like a hobo and my
books are never unpacked from a box. Once in my house though they will take
pride of place on my bookshelf in my office. Just going back to the first time I
bought the books, I remember they were from a newsagent in a semi-country
coastal town called Warnambool (aussie fans will know where that is). I was 11
or 12 and I was on holidays with the family. In the newsagent where the books
were was this huge cardboard stand that had the dragon from the cover of Warlock
Of Firetop Mountain all over it. Now, that would be great collectible to get
that I bet no one considered. Also, I have 2 copies of Citadel Of Chaos with 2
different covers. One is the original "red" cover with the black face on it. The
other is done by whats his name ? The guy who did the House Of Hell cover...is
it Miller ? I cant remember. Anyway...the books.. I agree re: Deathtrap Dungeon.
Also its sequal, Trial Of Champions. Brilliant, devious and full of atmospehere.
I liked most of the sci-fi ones to, so I don't agree with you there. I really
enjoyed The Rings Of Kether. Of course, I have raved enough about the Sorcery!
series which are EASILY my favorite of all FF ever written. I would need a
gigantic email to give my opinions on those. Being a comic fan, I though
Appointment With F.E.A.R. was a cool departure in terms of originality. Freeway
Fighter as well. There should have been more FF's that departed into other
genres. A nice Western FF or World War 2 FF would have been cool to see. Anyway,
that's my 2 cents worth :-) Regards, Darren Blizzard From: Darren Blizzard
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: RE: Favourite / least favourite FF books Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:50:56
+1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
- http://www.fightingfantasy.com "Also, I have 2 copies of Citadel Of Chaos with
2 different covers. One is the original "red" cover with the black face on it.
The other is done by whats his name ? The guy who did the House Of Hell
cover...is it Miller ? I cant remember." I was supposed to ask a question
here....does anyone else have this variant cover ? Regards, Darren Blizzard
From: Michael Taylor
Subject: RE: Other FF authors on this mailing list and rebirth of the fad
Sender: Michael Taylor
To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Message-ID: <199908312131_MC2-831C-9804@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline The
Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com Message text
written by "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List" >Anybody think it's the sort of
fad, or one of those fads, that could potentially become big again ?< I don't
know, but if you have an RPG gamestore nearby you might check out what appears
to be an FF-style Western RPG solo game that's brand new. So maybe it's just
'changing shape'.... Michael From: Darren Blizzard
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: RE: Oversized Titan and Out Of The Pit Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:13:37
+1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
- http://www.fightingfantasy.com I have a copy of what I assume is the oversized
Titan (same size as Out Of The Pit). People are saying that it is quite rare. My
friend bought it when it first came out and then when his FF interest waned, he
swapped it to me (I cant remember what for). As I have had this for many years
(and its still mint), I didn't really look in the bookstores for Titan back
then. Am I to assume that there are other versions that are not oversized.
Perhaps the same size as the Advanced FF books ? I would be curious to know
this. Basically, should feel quite happy to have an oversized verision of this
book in mint condition. I also have an oversized Out Of The Pit in mint
condition (with color pages in the center). Is this also rare. Is there also
another version of this available ? Regards, Darren Blizzard From: Darren
Blizzard
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: RE: Oversized Titan and Out Of The Pit Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:17:07
+1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
- http://www.fightingfantasy.com "Basically, should feel quite happy to have an
oversized verision of this book in mint condition." This was supposed to be a
question --> should I feel happy to have this was what I was trying to say ! :-)
Regards, Darren Blizzard From: "Aardvark of Doom"
To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Subject: Re: Favourite / least favourite FF books Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 02:26:07
+0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Ian Miller and Emmanuel if my memory serves me correctly, and I do have both,
although the original is French, but you can't have everything. -----Original
Message----- From: Darren Blizzard
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Date: 01 September 1999 01:49 Subject: RE: Favourite / least favourite FF books
>The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com > >"Also, I
have 2 copies of Citadel Of Chaos with 2 different covers. One >is the original
"red" cover with the black face on it. The other is >done by whats his name ?
The guy who did the House Of Hell cover...is it >Miller ? I cant remember." > >I
was supposed to ask a question here....does anyone else have this >variant cover
? > >Regards, > >Darren Blizzard > From: "Nathan P MAHNEY"
Organization: University of Ballarat To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:36:39 +1000 Subject: RE: Favourite / least favourite FF
books Priority: normal In-reply-to: <2137CA65666BD4119D7600902776711E06B6@MAGNA>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List -
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List"
From: Darren Blizzard
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: RE: Favourite / least favourite FF books Date sent: Wed, 1 Sep 1999
10:50:56 +1000 > The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
> > "Also, I have 2 copies of Citadel Of Chaos with 2 different covers. One > is
the original "red" cover with the black face on it. The other is > done by whats
his name ? The guy who did the House Of Hell cover...is it > Miller ? I cant
remember." > > I was supposed to ask a question here....does anyone else have
this > variant cover ? > I've got the one with the misty woman on the front, but
the first cover I ever saw on this book is the one you described. The Grizzly
Ewok cover, as I used to call it. - Nathan Mahney - From: "Nathan P MAHNEY"
Organization: University of Ballarat To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:30:18 +1000 Subject: Re: Favourite / least favourite FF
books Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199908311015.AA00533@panurge.tcp-ip.or.jp>
References: <199908310755.RAA05328@eureka.ballarat.edu.au> X-mailer: Pegasus
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Send reply to: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Date sent: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:15:35 +0900 To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing
List"
Subject: Re: Favourite / least favourite FF books From: Paul Mason
> The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com > > Nathan
P MAHNEY wrote on Aug 31: > > > I always thought that Wheelies were one of the
most absurd > representatives of a pretty absurd set (FF monsters). Didn't stop
us having > a scene in Riddling Reaver of a bunch of Wheelies 'tossing a human',
but > then Riddling Reaver was a Southern Comfort-fuelled absurdist tract... >
And that's why I love them so, dammit! Everyone needs a little absurdity every
now and then says me. Now I'm determined to get a copy of Riddling Reaver if
only for the scene mentioned above. - Nathan Mahney - From: "Nathan P MAHNEY"
Organization: University of Ballarat To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:42:04 +1000 Subject: Re: Favourite / least favourite FF
books Priority: normal References: <199908310755.RAA05328@eureka.ballarat.edu.au>
In-reply-to:
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List -
http://www.fightingfantasy.com Send reply to: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing
List"
Date sent: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:06:52 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Harris"
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: Re: Favourite / least favourite FF books > The Fighting Fantasy Mailing
List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com > > I liked the gambling in Citadel of
Chaos, and other FF books. .but inC of > D. there was "Knifey, Knifey". . . a
classic eh? > Ah yes, Knifey Knifey. Russian Roulette with knives and a funny
name. The mere mention of it brings me to laughter. It's really too bad that you
can't finish CoC if you enter the gambling room. - Nathan Mahney - From: Michael
Taylor
Subject: bookmarks Sender: Michael Taylor
To: "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List"
Message-ID: <199909010106_MC2-8326-68C8@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline The
Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com Message text
written by "The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List" >The Fighting Fantasy Mailing
List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com hi does anyone else remember a set of ff
bookmarks.i remember i think maybe 6 were free with certain books.they had a
picture from various books on the front and inside was a puzzle and you needed
them all to solve the clues. neil< I have an FF bookmark that came in a White
Dwarf magazine - but I think it was just an advertisement... Michael From: Alex
Eddy
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,ja
MIME-Version: 1.0 To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: Re: bookmarks References:
<19990831191230.5919.rocketmail@web103.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Fighting Fantasy Mailing
List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com Hi, I've got bookmarks #1 and #3, but I
never figured out the puzzles. I'd like to get photocopies or scans of the other
ones. Probably we can get all six together with everyone on the list? -alex neil
taylor wrote: > > The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List - http://www.fightingfantasy.com
> > hi > does anyone else remember a set of ff bookmarks.i remember i think >
maybe 6 were free with certain books.they had a picture from various > books on
the front and inside was a puzzle and you needed them all to > solve the clues.
> neil > __________________________________________________ To: Tristan Taylor
From: "Mark J. Popp"
Subject: Re: Favourite / least favourite FF books In-Reply-To:
<199909010304.VAA08061@mail6.cadvision.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:04 PM 8/31/99 -0600, you wrote: >Sorry
about that Mark. In Australia, we don't often use our middle initial >(although
Nathan P. Mahney seems to be an exception!, and it appears to be a >North
American attribute. However, I respect that, and I'll do my very best >to avoid
making the same mistake in the future. Sorry for any distress! Hey TCT, I never
thought the middle initial was a North American attribute, but that is an
interesting observation. I just cringe when people don't use it. Anyway, don't
worry about it, as long as it doesn't happen again. :-) Regards,
************************************************************** Mark J. Popp |
poppmj@cadvision.com | Calgary, Alberta, Canada
************************************************************** From: G Hart
To: The Fighting Fantasy Mailing List
Subject: RE: Other FF authors on this mailing list and rebirth of the fad
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