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Kai Wisdom and Fighting Fantasy Mailing List miscellanea #6

Here's an urgent qquestion for you guys. With kai blast how exactly does it
work? Can you only do it when the text says? My interpretation is that at
the start of each combat you can roll 2d10 and subtract that much endurance
from the enemy, but you lose 4 ep yourself. Can you do it once per combat or
as many times as you want? And why does it say it cannot be used in
conjunction with other psychic attacks? (presumably it means Kai Ray but
perhaps it means you can't use kaisurge in the same combat or something).

Campbell Pentney

It means you can't use Kai Surge, Kai Ray, Kai Blast, etc. all in the
same round to give you super duper bonuses of like double digits and shit...

Jason Leonard

This issue is very complex and has many factors.

I have some additional possibilities

1. rebellion

Evil turns on itself. Thus, the underdogs might rebel against the weakened 
darklords. We see the Nazidarim and Xargash still thriving in
books 13 and above.

2. Naar

Also, Naar could have punished them for their failure, sending them to
that pit of despair

3. Lone Wolf finishes them

My friend thinks that Lone Wolf hunted them all down.

Gabriel Seah

I know, it's stupid, but still:

Is Magnamund a spherical planet, or a flat one?  I do not remember this
from any of the gamebooks.....

Carl Reyes

Actually, this isn't very clear. It's a spherical world, but since
there's no information on the bit around the other side, it's easy to
get confused.

Luke Goaman-Dodson

Okay, I've pretty much been fine with rules, but there's one thing 
that bugs me.
	If LW has an EP of 23/23, and he gets a Chainmail Waistcoat, does his 
EP go to 27/27, or 27/23?  I've always done it the first way, for 2 reasons:

1) the text of the description tells you to "add 4 EP to your total".  
Potions of Laumspur tell you to "restore 4 EP to your total", so I assume 
that total = maximum EP.
2) it simulates the armour's defensive ability by allowing you to take more 
hits
3) who couldn't use some extra EP?

	I stumbled across a web site while ago, though, that says to do it 
the other way (27/23).  Which is right?
King Wumpus

IMHO, either way is right, as long as you are consistent.  One thing I
have always liked about the rules is that there is a little room for
flexibility and personal interpretation (but not a lot, which I also
like).

Personally, I have always followed the 27/27 approach.  If I lost the
waistcoat, I adjusted by -4/-4.  I assume that the other approach would be
a -4/0 adjustment.  I'm sure the web page's owner will correct me if I'm
wrong. :-)

Mark J. Laird

I think either way is right.  The way I normally do this is actually rather
cheap.  I add the 27/23 way, but actually don't deduct EP unless my own
Endurance gets low (lets say I have 2 or 3 of my original EP left) then it gets
taken from these items.  I have it where once the items EP is gone the item is
gone.  Its sort of like the Durability idea in the game of Diablo for those of
you familiar with it.  I think it is way open to interpretation though, and any
way that works is good.

Sean-Robert Shaw

Well I won't correct you per se, just toss in my reasons why I follow the
27/23 approach.

1) Armor is meant to add defensive skill and reduce actual physical damage
to the wearer.  Is does NOT make a person more durable, it makes the
person less likely to take damge to to "interference" of the armor.
THerefore when you get the Chainmail Waistcoat, you supplement the overall
total of EP, but the basic number stays the same.  Hence, 27/23.

2) Does Laumspure/Curing/Oede repair the armor?  No.  So when you lose
those four points of armor you lose them until you get a new waistcoat.
Unless you have Grand Reperation.  =)

Any comments?

Rick Grotzky

I guess it's up for open interpretation. The latter way is more
realistic, the reasoning for it being that if that damage is taken, the
armor is damaged and can't help Lone Wolf much. The prior way is a bit more
helpful in the game though, and probably more commonly used for that reason.
After all, how many times have you finished a book with only like 4 HP? I
know I can count them on at least one hand...

Jason Leonard

IMHO, i think it should be +? CS instead of +4 EP, or maybe +2 EP +1 CS,
because CS is a measure of both your offensive and defensive capabilities.

But, thats just me...

By the way, the way EP is handled sometimes bugs me. There should be a
section for keeping track of lethal wounds (ie combat) and non-lethal
wounds (like being exhausted from "fighting" the door in LW6. There's
probably a much better example but I cant think of it right now.)

Sam Bowker

I've recently been reading about the world of Tekumel (after following links
from Paul Mason's website) and was interested to learn that character
generation in this fantasy role-playing game could be achieved by reading
'solo-adventure' books in which your starting character learnt skills based
on his choices.

At first I thought this would be a great use for fighting fantasy books, but
realised that there are two main problems: Firstly, there's normally only
one 'proper' ending (or at least only one way to survive!) so all the
characters produced from that book would end up the same. The other issue is
that you normally begin the books as a thief/sorcerer/warrior and don't
really change your career much during play.

The exception of which I'm aware: The Crimson Tide, in which you can end up
as a mercenary leader, monk, or basket weaver, with skills in martial arts,
magic, or simply plenty of stamina from working hard in a mine. And
unsurprisingly, it's written by Paul.

So, my questions:

Which other Fighting Fantasy books offer a variety of different character
advancements and story endings?

Has anyone read the Tekumel character generation books? How similar are they
to Fighting Fantasy, and are they fun to read just as an adventure rather
than the purpose intended?

And Paul, did you consider this as a method of character generation for your
Outlaws of the Water Margin game? I imagine it would have been a great way
to teach the history of the period and set the scene (and from a design
point of view, prevent the creation of rule-abusive characters).

philip.mills

Does anyone remember this discussion? It generated some really long
posts. I can't remember much of it because it was when I first joined
(another question: does anyone remember when I first joined? I was the
weird kid with the crap post about a LW film:) but I recall being quite
interested. Anyway, I thought I'd bring this up because I made some
connections between Magnamund religion and world religions:

Celtic (?): Kai: Lugh/Belenus. Ishir: I don't know but there had to be a
moon goddess some where. :) Naar: Balor (Fomorian king)/some other
hostile god.

Greek: Kai: Apollo. Ishir: Artemis/Selene. Naar: Pluto. This isn't very
accurate because technically Pluto wasn't evil.

Norse: Kai: There was no sun god but there was someone to drive the
sun's (and moon's) chariot. This was because a bloke named his children
Sun and Moon and the gods decided that they should drive the chariots in
punishment. Ishir: See above. Naar: Loki/Utgard-Loki/Hel.

Christianity: Kai: Umm, God/Jesus. Ishir: Uh, Virgin Mary? Naar: Now
this is obvious (I think), Satan.

Luke Goaman-Dodson

> Greek: Kai: Apollo. Ishir: Artemis/Selene. Naar: Pluto. This isn't very
> accurate because technically Pluto wasn't evil.
>

Technically, he wasn't Pluto, either.  In Greek mythos he was Hades, lord of
the underworld.  Pluto is a Roman name. (sorry)
Hera would be more in tune with Naar anyway.  so what if she's a woman?

>
> Norse: Kai: There was no sun god but there was someone to drive the
> sun's (and moon's) chariot. This was because a bloke named his children
> Sun and Moon and the gods decided that they should drive the chariots in
> punishment. Ishir: See above. Naar: Loki/Utgard-Loki/Hel.
>
> Christianity: Kai: Umm, God/Jesus. Ishir: Uh, Virgin Mary? Naar: Now
> this is obvious (I think), Satan.

Oh boy, let's not get into this one.  Although I am an agnostic, I will say
(before anyone else does and this snowballs into another one of those
religious/morality debates) that there can be no correlation between the
Magnamund pantheon and the Christian one, as Naar and Ishir are gods, and
Christianity, although it has apostles, Satan, and the like, recognizes only
One True God (hope this satisfies everyone who felt the need to say
something, now let's drop it).  : )

Also, you forgot Egyptian:
Kai: Ra, Ishir: Isis, Naar: Anubis perhaps?  Although he was merely lord of
the underworld, and not really evil.

Carl Reyes

And let's not forget Hindu:
Kai: Brahma (sp?), Ishir: Krishna, Naar: Shiva.  Yes, I know Krishna's male,
but the other two are a good fit.  (Note that Brahma creates the world but
doesn't do much afterward, likewise Kai.)

Ben Krefetz

THe Greeks and Romans had basically the same gods, but just with different
names.  THe planets of our solar system are named for the Roman gods,
their Greek couterparts are as follows:

Mercury/Hermes
Venus/Aphrodite
Earth/Gaia???
Mars/Ares (I think...)
Jupiter/Zeus
Saturn/Cronos (Again I am unsure...Wasn't Saturn/Cronos the father of
Jupiter/Zeus?)

Uranus/(Maybe this is Cronos...)
Neptune/Poseiden
Pluto/Hades

Rick Grotzky

See below to see what this is concerning.  Zeus is Jupiter.  Zeus however had a
father and I believe this is Saturn.  Saturn also had a father, which is getting
into too long of a story to relate here who if I remember rightly is Uranus. 
For a more complete tale check out a detailed Mythology book from you library.

Harold Shaw

A trivial note, I know, but ...
 

Naar could not really be equivalent to Satan (="Usurper") in terms of appearance. In terms of calculation and cruelty, certainly - just not the Darkness bit. The idea went something like this:
 

Lucifer was the perfect Archangel, the first thing ever made, who supposedly shone like the sun, and was very Aryan in appearance. He decided that he was so perfect, however, that he could "run" things better.
 

Naar is a god. It is difficult comparing a god (eg Grecian deity, can be hurt by a mortal, as opposed to being the omnipotent, omniscient etc. God out of Israeli history), but most theologians generally agree that one-on-one between the two, the god would be outnumbered.
 

Ian Johnson

Saturn was Cronos. Uranus was the same. Cronos/Saturn swallowed his
children because he heard one would be better than him. At the birth of
Zeus, his wife (and sister) Rhea fed him rocks wrapped in a blanket.
When Zeus grew up, he made Cronos/Saturn cough them up or something, I
forget how. 

The Titans had the same names as in Roman myth I believe, except for
Cronos of course. Uranus was father of everything, and was husband (and
son) of Gaea. (You see, this is why I can't respect the Greek gods:)
Gaea was sometimes called Mother Earth. (Oh, as a strange coincidence,
there is a story about Orion, who boasted that he would kill everything,
so Gaea sent a giant scorpion to get him. Some stuff happened, but the
coincidence is that the scorpion is the constellation Scorpio is mine,
and I am rigidly against all forms of hunting. Weird, yes, interesting,
no:)

To get back on-topic, here's a reminder of what we should be talking
about: LONEWOLFLONEWOLFLONEWOLFLONEWOLF. :)

Luke Goaman-Dodson

except that Uranos was not Cronos, as said before, if anyone he was sky.  Sky
did have children with the earth (as many mythologies go, it can be seen as the
real sky overshadows the earth and the rain is the thing that makes everything
come to life, make whatever parallels, I don't think I need to go into that much
detail).  Sky was defeated by his son Chronos who decided to make it impossible
for one of his children to do the same to him and so he devoured them.  Then
came along Zeus who was saved by his mother and defeated his father and freed
his siblings.  This is very breif, there are other books out there which can
elaborate on this much much more.

On the topic of relating this to the Kai, there are parallels I think, but not
too many that I can really find.  Of more interest to me at the point of writing
this would be, Is Ishir Kai's consort, wife, or anything at all, or are they
just two totally different individuals with nothing related except the
furthurance of the cause against Naar?  Also, as Ishir is seen trying to
preserve the balance, would she be more of a neutral goddess with Kai as the god
of Good, and Naar as the god of evil?  Or is she totally good as well?

Harold Shaw

I meant that Uranus had the same name in both mythologies. 

See the Legends for more on Ishir and Kai. Kai is Ishir's consort, and
vice versa. Both are good.

Luke Goaman-Dodson

Does anyone understand how some of the machinery used by the bad guys
fits into the game world?  I ask not to 'compare' to our history, but
just in case a pen and paper RPG ever starts up.

I haven't read my books in a LONG time, so I'm vague on the names, but I
specifically mean the ironclad steamships and the huge tank thing (you
know the one I mean.  I think it was in the Plague Lords of Ruel...  the
one that looks like a huge train).

This level of technology seems too high for the rest of the world.  Why
would anyone who could build a reliable steamship or a huge train not
also have assault weapons.  Do you think this technology should be
removed from the setting?

Carl Reyes

The development of technology in the Lone Wolf books doesn't seem to quite 
have the extensive scientific basis that development of technology in our 
own world did, but other than that, it's pretty realistic.  The technology 
displayed by, say, the Darklords could have its source or inspiration in a 
more advanced world (we know Naar controls some of those).  Also, it's very 
large and bulky, which indicates an inherent crudity about it.  Even though 
mainstream steam technology has only existed for a short while in our own 
world (comparatively speaking), the potential for that technology extended 
hundreds of years into the past.  The Darklords just moved things forward a 
bit.

I know you didn't want a comparison to our own world, but any topic of 
"realism" has to have that tie to what we "know" was real, aka our own 
world's history.

> This level of technology seems too high for the rest of the world.

It is, for the most part.  The Darklords were a bit higher tech then 
everyone else.  But, again, as I pointed out above, their large mechanicals 
were usually crude as well (the two characteristics, large and crude go 
hand in hand with theoretical and analyical technological development).

> Why would anyone who could build a reliable steamship or a
> huge train not also have assault weapons.

Assault weapons are much higher tech, though they may not seem that way. 
 Miniturization is a type of technological development too, and one which 
usually comes later.  We see large, simple assault weapons, like cannon, 
but that's about the extent of it.

The other aspect to remember in all of this is the magic component.  The 
large ironclad in LW12 had a magically-based power source, as far as I can 
tell.  Combining magic and technology where each is more efficient can 
result in a perception of "advanced technology".  And the Darklords 
certainly proved themselves capable of making such combinations.

> Do you think this technology should be removed from the setting?

I think it kind of adds a darker aspect to the whole deal, myself.  It 
isn't ever particularly overused, as far as I can see, so I don't find it 
unnecessary.

Frank

I've been playing up to LW book 16 now, and I'd like to write about
something that really annoys me, instand deaths. Remember how in lonewolf 4
and 5 there was a 1 in 10 chance you'd die no matter what? THey were kind of
cool, they added suspence, and if you lost I mean just start from book 1.
But in the grand master series it gets ridiculous, so far these are the
instant deaths you have to face.
 BOok 13 - 4/10 (1/10 if you have 2 certain abilities)
 BOok 14 - 1/10 1/10 (another 1/10 unless you have another ability)
 BOok 15 - 1/10 2/10
 BOok 16 - 3/10!!!!
I think I figures just on all the instant deaths (Cauldron of Fear is quite
notorius for this) you have about
a 1/4 chance to survive. Does anyone just ignore these and continue?

Campbell Pentney

It's almost impossible to make it through LW3 without fighting a Kalkoth
(okay, this one isn't -totally- unavoidable but there's maybe -one- path
that avoids it, as the Blue Stone Triangle is a mandatory item); using the
regular Combat Results Table, even with the max combat ratio of +11 (which
you should have, as no Kalkoth has a higher CS than 11, you get +8 or +10
for the Sommerswerd, so as long as you started with CS of 14 or better
you'll be fighting them with a +11 or better ratio), you still face a 66%
chance of death, as follows:

60% of the time you will roll a 1 through 6, in all of which cases, you
will be paralyzed and eaten.
30% of the time you will win the battle on the first round through an auto
kill.
10% of the time, you will do 18 damage to the enemy and there will be a 2nd
round, which as it turns out always decides the combat.

This 10% is broken down into:
6% of the time you will survive the 1st round and die on the second (I'm
not sure what you do if you win the combat, but take damage as you strike
the killing blow. I'd say you probably still die, either by being eaten by
another Kalkoth or Baknar, or by another creature (maybe the Javek slithers
down this way)... others may play it differently).
4% of the time you will win on the 2nd round, either by damage (18 + 18 is
always enough to kill the Kalkoth featured in Book 3, none of which has
more than 35 EP) or an auto kill.

This results in a 66% chance of death. Since combat is a random number
table operated facility, this is a 66% chance of random number death, and
probably the very worst case of random number death in the entire series
... (like I said, it's avoidable, but -almost- unavoidable...)

Speaking of LW3, ever notice that about 10% of the book, not even counting
death sections, consists entirely of sections with no winning path at
all?... (and it's actually quite easy to slip into this. if you see
Loi-Kymar, you should probably rescue him as Kai duties.. but one of the
other directions you can go doesn't have you seeing him unless you actually
open a door, the other path leading to 276 = no-win...)

Patrick G. Kalinauskas

Assuming you take the path where you get the Fire Sphere, you can also
get a Blue Stone Triangle from these Ice Barbarians. Attack them and
defeat them in combat, and you get one.

Also passing over the Frozen Lake when hunted by the Kalkoth and
possessing Camouflage will give you a very decent chance 70 or 90%
(depending on if you've applied Bakhnar Oil to your skin) to get a Blue
Stone Triangle without actually fighting a Kalkoth. (Haven't checked the
previous paragraphs here if you need to fight a Kalkoth before this
paragraph.)

> 60% of the time you will roll a 1 through 6, in all of which cases, you
> will be paralyzed and eaten.
> 30% of the time you will win the battle on the first round through an auto
> kill.
> 10% of the time, you will do 18 damage to the enemy and there will be a 2nd
> round, which as it turns out always decides the combat.
> 
> This 10% is broken down into:
> 6% of the time you will survive the 1st round and die on the second (I'm
> not sure what you do if you win the combat, but take damage as you strike
> the killing blow. I'd say you probably still die, either by being eaten by
> another Kalkoth or Baknar, or by another creature (maybe the Javek slithers
> down this way)... others may play it differently).
> 4% of the time you will win on the 2nd round, either by damage (18 + 18 is
> always enough to kill the Kalkoth featured in Book 3, none of which has
> more than 35 EP) or an auto kill.
> 
> This results in a 66% chance of death. Since combat is a random number
> table operated facility, this is a 66% chance of random number death, and
> probably the very worst case of random number death in the entire series
> ... (like I said, it's avoidable, but -almost- unavoidable...)
> 

No, chances are good. Especially, since that Fire Sphere is such a
useful item. I reckon most people like to steer their adventure so that
they get it. And then while you are at it see to it that you get the
Blue Stone Triangle as well.

> Speaking of LW3, ever notice that about 10% of the book, not even counting
> death sections, consists entirely of sections with no winning path at
> all?... (and it's actually quite easy to slip into this. if you see
> Loi-Kymar, you should probably rescue him as Kai duties.. but one of the
> other directions you can go doesn't have you seeing him unless you actually
> open a door, the other path leading to 276 = no-win...)
> 

Yes, but at least there is an escape route. You can survive LW 3 and
fail your mission (#61).

Would have felt a lot worse if you died... Perhaps Joe changed his mind
during the development, resulting in a lot of half-dead paragraphs.

Robert Ekblad

Gee, I made it through the 20 Lone Wolf books without dying. The only
trouble I ran into was Zakhan Kimah. Then I read Grey Star the Wizard
and got myself killed trying to save Shan from the Quoku. Should've
known. Whenever anybody joins Lone Wolf on his quest, they always end up
dead or captured. "Ok, you can come, but you'll be sorry!"
Cool Sandwich

Benjamin Krefetz wrote:

> Does anyone know where the Darkland cities of Akagazad and Gournen are?

Akagazad is about maybe 150 or so miles northwest of Korst in the
Western Tentarias. Check the map in "The Darke Crusade" if you have it. As
for Gournen, got me.

Shizukana Wolf

Gournen lies on the east shore of Lake Ghargon (about 350 miles
north-east (or perhaps NNE) of Kagorst. You can see most of Lake Ghargon
on the Map in LW 17. Gournen is just outside the map.

Robert Ekblad

I have not encountered any gameBOOKs that are have a
female hero.  Computer games are a different story
though (as far as I am concerned at least).  I have
followed the Kings Quests series for a while and games
4&7 are from a female perspective.  Also many FPSs,
eg. Quake 2 & Unreal, have a selection of male and
female characters.  Also, Tekken 3 for Playstation has
a bunch of male & female characters.  I actually enjoy
using the female characters in these games (personal
picks - "Nina" in Tekken 3 and "Stiletto" in Quake 2).

So there,

Ryan O' Sullivan

I think the idea is a little lost here.  In gamebooks, you actually
have a quasi-"real" character, one (if the author is good anyway..) that
has emotions, feelings and an overall destiny.  Chaacters in FPS' and
fighting games hardly have emotions.  For the most part they are bland,
generic females, 99% of the time with incredibly misproportionate.."upper
bodies" (Lara Croft anyone?) and sterotyped.  A good example of a female
character in any game would be Terra or Celes for Final Fantasy III.
Those two, and almost every other character in that game really were
portrayed and written well!

Rick Grotzky

Don't forget that, in our good old Earth, the role of the women was not
heroic at all during middle-ages, but rather "stay at home" way of life...
By extension, it's the same matter for many heroic-fantasy stories. Joe
Dever doesn't give a great place in his books for female characters :
* inn-keeper
* beautiful but ingenuous noble-woman in LW 18 (Coryenne of Lucia)
* zombie bitch in LW 16 (streets of Helgor)
* "Star Trek like character" : princess in LW 20 & 21 (Oriah)
* abducted daughter to be saved in LW 4 (Vanalund's daughter)

The only good female characters : Aral (Roark's sister), Serocca, Queen
Evaine and the one who's helps the Grandmaster in Duadon (LW 24).

Yes, I've forgotten Alyss, one of the more important (ans powerful)
character of LW books. The missing of Viveka in my list is more forgivable
(sp?), because I've not read the Legends (not published in France, and out
of print in UK).

Fabrice Cadillon

Please don't forget Viveka the mercenary and Alyss the elemental....Viveka
did not play much of a role in the gamebooks (book 2 only) but Alyss helped
Lone Wolf several times in the later Grand Master series books....but I
would agree that for the most part, females are given a secondary role in
the series, which technically speaking, would be appropriate given the
period...there were not that many female heroines of the dark/middle ages
except for perhaps Jeanne d'Arc

Jason Hughitt

Actually, in the legends series, there are some good female
heroines...Alyss (who IMHO was done badly in the gamebooks), Qinefer,
Viveka (not done badly in the gamebooks, just not done enough)...etc.

Sam Bowker

I find it a little unrealistic to see female heroines stalking around medievil and fantasy settings.
As someone rightly pointed out - women played a subdued role in society.  The days of
burning bras haven't reached Magnamund.
It find it somewhat pathatic when characters are introduced just for political correctness.  The
film world is packed with examples.  Every block buster will have a black actor in a leading role.
Would it be insulting to ethnic groups if they didn't feature in a film?  Do I feel intimidated or insulted when 'The Cosby's' is on tv without a white bloke in sight?  I think not.

Introducing female characters just to be PC or to attract female readers won't work.  It only
degrades the book/film.

Nick Raphael

Viveka appears in gamebook #2, and legends #3, 6, 7 &9

Qinefer is an invention of Paul Barnett (John Barnett) in the legends.

A rough description follows below:

She appears in Legends 1-8. I think she's a mix of Cloeasian and
Sommlending. Qinefer has latent Kai disciplines, but she was never
'discovered' by the Kai Lords, and so survived the massacre in MS 5050.
Q. had to endure her family being slaughtered by the darklord troops
while hiding herself to escape the same fate.

Lone Wolf first met her in the Chamber of State in Holmgard, when he was
ushered in to the king. Ulnar had first thought to send Qinefer to fetch
the Sommerswerd, but now instead she was awarded a knighthood and
leadership of Sommlending troops (quite an unprecednted honour for the
daughter to a peasant.)

When Lone Wolf returned from Durenor Qinefer was appointed the new
Baroness of the Southlund Marches (the earlier Baron having been killed
during the invasion).

Vonotar flees to Kalte and Ulnar calls upon Lone Wolf to catch him. In
order for the Kai community not to evaporate in Lone Wolf's absence,
Qinefer is called upon to lead the Kai community until Lone Wolf's
return. When Lone Wolf returns, Qinefer decides to stay at the Kai
Monastery.

Alyss persuades Cloud Maker from Ragadorn to join the Kai. Later Lone
Wolf is abducted by darklord Haakon and taken to Helgedad. In Vassagonia
Banedon and Jenara requests help from Sommerlund to destroy the
'Birthplace'. Since Lone Wolf is absent, Ulnar summons Qinefer instead.
Qinefer goes, leaving Cloud Maker in charge of the Kai. (Later on Cloud
Maker is killed by Slutar's troops when they try to capture Qinefer.)

Qinefer travels to Vassagonia by land and meets with Banedon and Jenara
in Barrakeesh. (The Birthplace is a magical vortex. It's main use is to
transport spawn from Helgedad to Barrakeesh, but it also has the
side-effect of causing madness in any humans that stray to close to it.)

Qinefer forces her way into the Zakhan's palace, and persuades the
extremely ego-centrical Zakhan Moudallah to show her the way to the
Birthplace. Qinefer visits the Birthplace but in doing so, she loses
part of her soul and gains an aspect of Naar in its place. This aspect
of Naar grows stronger and stronger as time passes. The Nadziranim
detects this aspect of Naar and allows Qinefer to leave the Birthplace.
She returns to Sommerlund, her mission failed.

In Sommerlund she finds that Lone Wolf has returned from the darklands.
Later on Qinefer takes part in averting the sacrifice of Madelon in
Temple Deep.

Lone Wolf is sent to Vasagonia on a diplomatic mission. The nightmares
Qinefer has due to the aspect of Naar are now terryfying. Qinefer
decides that she has to return to the Birthplace. As before she travels
the land based route. She walks into Barrakeesh, and since this is soon
after Zakhan Kimah's takeover, she's soon captured and thrown into the
dungeons. Banedon and Thog releases her. After being released Qinefer
leaves them to search out the Birthplace. The Nadziranim sees her as
guinea-pig and lets her enter the Birthplace for a second time. They
have made alterations to the birthplace which they hope can turn Qinefer
into a puppet of Naar permanently.

By shouting Ishir's name in the Birthplace, Qinefer destroys it
permanently. In the process, the aspect of Naar she had gained drains
away to nothing, and Qinefer's soul becomes complete (more complete than
it had been before her first visit). Qinefer become an etheral
creatures. She can walk between worlds, and she can see the "patterns of
the future". These patterns tell her that if Lone Wolf chooses to find
the Book of the Magnakai, then she will leave him. She tries to tell
Lone Wolf this (shortly before Lone Wolf overhears the discussion
between Kimah and Haakon), but he doesn't believe/listen to her.

As a result Qinefer leaves Lone Wolf to wander around in the worlds for
purposes and quests unknown...

Robert Ekblad

Hi you lot,

Today I found a copy of 'Way of the Tiger' 5: Warbringer! in a second-hand
shop. I know that a few of you possess these books. When I opened my copy a
small piece of paper dropped out, detailing an error in the book.

It ran like this: "ERRATA

Please note that for paragraphs 213, 263, and 283, if you win against THE
SPAWN OF THE RIFT, you should turn next to paragraph 323.

Following paragraph 361, the correct turn should be to paragraph 271."

This message looks to be 'official' (looking at how it's been printed,
rather than a fan simply putting it in).

I hope this makes sense to some of you, as I haven't played the book yet.

Ta.

Richard Stanton

Rich and the rest,

Yes towards the end of the series there were more and more errors printed in 
the penguin edition anyway(there is an american print but I don't know about 
that) Anyway from memory books 4,5,6 all had errors and had those small 
pieces of paper in, I think no 6 has about 3 of these, I have a full set of 
mint coppies at home and can list them if you want.... It's pretty hard to 
get coppies of these books with these in as usually they get lost, yes they 
are official;)

Brett Easterbrook

>Paul Mason wrote on Jul 20:
>
>Way of the Tiger was published by Penguin? Never realised that!

My copies of the series are all English, and were published by Knight Books.

And Brett kindly offered: "Anyway from memory books 4,5,6 all had errors and
had those small pieces of paper in, I think no 6 has about 3 of these, I
have a full set of
mint coppies at home and can list them if you want."

I would appreciate it if you did this.

Richard Stanton

G'day All,

my experiences with Way of the Tiger is that every book (1-6) from the
original print had at least one paragraph mistake in them. Generally, one
digit was wrong, so you found yourself having to add 100, 10 or 1 or
something within that range. My theory was that Jamie Thomson was born in
Iran, and in ancient Persia (present Iran), to be perfect was to be
challenging Allah! Not that I'm suggesting this was the case with WOTT, but
it sure makes an interesting story!

Tristan Taylor

Given Jamie's views about Islam it seems unlikely...

But there may be some truth in it. I don't think anybody would accuse Jamie of being 
perfect!

----
Best wishes

Paul Mason

G'day All,

Firstly, perhaps plaguarism is a bit of a hard word. I've been meaning to
bring this topic up for a while, and I guess with Paul Mason on line, it's a
bit easier. I guess the topic I'm meaning to bring up is "what are the
influences behind each Fighting Fantasy book?", but where can the line be
drawn between influence and plaguarism? Here's the case. I may be speaking a
little out of context here, especially towards our American compatriots, but
I believe that the highly successful BBC production "Dr Who" (Screened in
the UK and Australia from 1963-1989, with a movie released in 1996) provides
the basis to a couple of plots in the Fighting Fantasy series. What's more
is that our very own Paul Mason is in the centre of action here.

I believe that the "Riddling Reaver" (RPG by Paul Mason and Steve Williams)
draws on a number of aspects of a couple of aspects from Dr Who. In the Dr
Who story "The Celestial Toymaker" the Doctor and his companions come up
against a warped being, who delights in playing games for high stakes
(usually people's lives). The Toymaker possesses a number of dolls, who act
in a similar manner to the dolls in the Reaver's retreat (especially in
playing the game of "grandma's Steps" or "Blind Man's Bluff" - know what I'm
on about). The Doctor eventually win's the game he plays by imitating his
opponent's (the Toymaker's) voice. This slightly resembles the situation
where the adventurers must show the eye in the door in the Reaver's retreat
a visage of the Riddling Reaver, in order to get past. In another Dr Who
Adventure called "Logopolis", a being known as "The Watcher" (a wraith like
being - sound familiar) aids the Doctor, and eventually melds with him as he
regenerates by the end of the adventurer. This displays remarkable
similarities to "The Watcher" in that temple / creature in "The Riddling
Reaver".

But wait.... there's more. I have found that Stephen Hand's book
"Moonrunner" (FF #48) bears similarities to another couple of Doctor Who
stories, Most notably, the Dr Who story "The Talons of Weng-Chiang". Both
adventures are set in a Victorian-era London setting, but the greatest
similarity lies in the name of the prtagonist's adversaries. In the Dr Who
story, the Doctor's adversary is named Magnus Greel - bearing a striking
resemblence to an almagamation of the names of the villains in "Moonrunner"
namely Karam Gruul and Magus Radu. Also, in Dr Who, Magnus Greel bears a
resemblence to the illustration of Karam Gruul (i.e. Victorian-era Asian in
appearance - pig tails etc.). Following on from this, the Dr Who story
"Image of the Fendahl" (incidentally produced just shortly after "The Talons
of Weng-Chiang") depicts an ancient skull of a being named Fendahl, who
feeds on the life force of others. Ring a bell? The Skull of Mora Tao for
instance?

Whilst I'm definitely not accusing these fabulous authors of plaguarism, I
wish to find out whether these Dr Who stories influenced these Fighting
Fantasy adventures in any way. I apologise to people who have no idea on
what I just wrote (I'm having trouble myself!)

Tristan Taylor

Hello, everyone,

I in no way want to slam Fighting Fantasy (just covering my butt! :) ),
but some other "similarities" that I noticed were between Ian
Livingstome's own Freeway Fighter and Mad Max (the Interceptor, for one)
and Steve Jackson's Starship Traveler and Star Trek (mostly in the way
the crew was laid out). Personally, I looked at this not as plagiarism,
but kind of as a way of paying homage to Mad Max and Star Trek. I mean,
it's not like there weren't any original ideas in the books, right? The
stories, at least in my opinion, were new, not to mention entertaining.
Also, the similarities were just that: similarities. They weren't
obvious rip-offs. So, for me, the bottom line is that plagiarism is
wrong, but that kind of depends on how you define plagiarism. And to
address your concerns, Tristan, I think that there are an absolutely
huge amount of authors, playrights and screenplay writers, who,
unconsciously or otherwise, tend to borrow ideas from somewhere or
another. I've heard lines from "Army of Darkness" in more things than I
could count, but that's not necessarily bad. Of course, I'm very
interested to hear what Paul Mason has to say about this! I always love
insider information! What do you say, Paul? Happy trails,

Ben Pearson

And whilst on the subject, don't you think "The Horror of Craggen Rock"
sounds awfully like "The Horror of Fang Rock"?  :)

Nathan Page

I don't know about influences on plots, but I can think of a couple of
links:

Peter Darvill-Evans, author of "Beneath Nightmare Castle",
"Portal of Evil", and "Spectral Stalkers", was also for a while the
editor of the New Adventures series of Doctor Who novels.

That slightly odd-looking mummy lumbering into view on the left in
the illustration opposite paragraph 149 of "The Curse of the Mummy" is,
without any doubt, one of the servicer-robots from The Pyramids of Mars.

Graham Hart

Actually I am a great fan of Doctor Who, and am proud to have been involved in the 
Virgin Doctor Who RPG 'Timelord' (now available on the net as freeware). Moreover, 
I'd be the last person to leap in with a kneejerk claim of not having been influenced 
by stuff (of which more anon).

In this case, however, although I would _love_ to have seen the Celestial Toymaker, 
and have read very brief synopses, if I did watch it, I was far too young to 
remember it. If it _was_ an influence on the Riddling Reaver, it was a highly 
unconscious one. Moreover, and this I think is the conclusive point, a large 
proportion of the points you come up with above were created by Steve Williams. At 
no time when writing the book did we ever discuss The Celestial Toymaker (Steve 
wasn't really a big Doctor Who fan). Frankly, I think the 'Watcher' point is stretching 
things a bit. I mean, I could equally well have been inspired by the character from 
the Marvel comics I read as a kid, or the Lord of the Rings, or any of the other 
hundreds of 'Watchers' in popular fiction!

>But wait.... there's more. I have found that Stephen Hand's book
>"Moonrunner" (FF #48) bears similarities to another couple of Doctor Who
>stories, Most notably, the Dr Who story "The Talons of Weng-Chiang". Both
>adventures are set in a Victorian-era London setting,

Moonrunner is set in a Victorian-era London setting?

> but the greatest
>similarity lies in the name of the prtagonist's adversaries. In the Dr Who
>story, the Doctor's adversary is named Magnus Greel - bearing a striking
>resemblence to an almagamation of the names of the villains in "Moonrunner"
>namely Karam Gruul and Magus Radu. Also, in Dr Who, Magnus Greel bears a
>resemblence to the illustration of Karam Gruul (i.e. Victorian-era Asian in
>appearance - pig tails etc.).

It possible that Stephen was influenced by the story, but I don't see much similarity 
to be honest. Moreover, Martin McKenna is well known for basing his illustrations on 
real models, and it seems highly likely that he could based them on the Doctor Who 
story.

Whether Stephen was influenced by Doctor Who or not, I don't know. I'm certainly 
influenced by Doctor Who in a general sense, simply because I watched the 
programme from childhood, and even got involved with Doctor Who role-playing (and 
shared a flat with Doctor Who nut Ian Marsh, who wrote Time Lord and has a load 
of the videos). None of my books have been consciously influenced by Doctor Who, 
however, and I'm afraid what you have found are the sorts of coincidences 
inevitable with a show that went on for so long (and 'plagiarised' itself, too, on many 
occasions!).

I don't particularly remember conscious influences for Riddling Reaver, or for any of 
the books I wrote with Steve W. We may have talked about this and that, but when 
you work with a co-author such things get drastically distorted from the word go. 
The Crimson Tide was quite consciously modelled on all those crappy barbarian 
movies (starting with Conan) where the hero as a child sees his father killed by the 
baddie. I wanted to take the trope and twist it into a very different direction. In the 
process, of course, there were also influences from the various kung fu movies. 
Coincidentally, a special prize to anyone who can identify the martial arts practised 
by the monks of Baochou _and_ the red robed monks.

Similarly, Magehunter is influenced (in this case, almost to the point of direct 
plagiarism) by the movie Warlock. Again, my idea was to take the situation and twist 
it into new directions. I think the Arabianesque setting and the body swapping 
achieved that. This was at least partly a conscious strategy, based on the fact that 
I like the idea myself of being put in a familiar film and then the story warping in 
unfamiliar directions.

To be quite honest (and I'm not being rude here), similarities to Doctor Who are 
more likely to emerge from the fact that Doctor Who is the same sort of writing, 
and therefore its writers are prone to base their work on the same sorts of sources 
as FF writers.

----
Best wishes

Paul Mason

Maybe plagiarism was a little strong as a title, but as I tried to convey, I'm 
nevertheless interested by the idea of where inspiration comes from.

> I guess I was just looking for a catchy
>subject title, but primarily, I was wondering if Dr Who in anyway influenced
>you and your fellow authors, given the similiraties that I pointed out.

The Darvill-Evans link was the strongest, I think, but it's fair to say that a 
number of writers liked the show. Whether they were specifically inspired by 
certain episodes is another matter.

----
Best wishes

Paul Mason

> Moreover, Martin McKenna is well known for basing his illustrations on
> real models

Speaking of McKenna, I was curious to learn that all of Alan Craddock's art
was replaced by his on the US BattleCards. I wonder if this was just a
question of style, or an international issue. Does anyone know anything
about this or have any ideas?

philip.mills

What Character Classes and Races would you use in a LW RPG?  I've been
toying with AD&D characters and races...

I was thinking
Classes:    Warrior (standard soldier, not Kai), Rogue, Cleric (Kai,
Ishir, and Naar), Wizard, Ranger (this would be the 'Kai Initiate'
character class), and Bard.

Races (for player characters only): Human, Dwarf (I just don't see
mention of elves, half-elves, halflings, etc. in the books).

Okay, I hope this is a worthwhile discussion for everyone...

Carl Reyes

Wouldn't a low level Kai be boring to play though?  I mean, all they do is
study at the monastery until they reach the rank of Journeyman, then they
can travel abroad.

Of course Lone Wolf was the exception of to this...

Rick Grotzky

From:	Carl Reyes
> What Character Classes and Races would you use in a LW RPG?  I've been
> toying with AD&D characters and races...

It would depend on the system, but given a choice, I wouldn't use "classes" 
(unless it were a class-type differently defined than the very generalized 
AD&D ones).  The AD&D ones would work, of course, but you would find it 
easier in AD&D to employ many Kits to separate the various types of 
characters possible within a given class.  As for the Kai, there is enough 
distinct about them you're probably going to have to create a new class to 
accomodate their somewhat unique combinations of abilities/powers, even at 
the pre-Kai Master levels.  Speaking of levels, one is going to have to 
address Kai levels a bit differently than a strict AD&D level system, in 
order to accurately replicate the realities and flavor of the LW books. 
 One way around this would be to have a series of three classes, Kai Lord, 
Kai Master, and Kai Grand Master, with a level-based progression system 
built into each one with the potential to progress on to the "next" class 
upon reaching a level approximating all the base disciplines of the 
previous level.  In general though, I believe the more specific "classes" 
concept of other games would work better in this instance than the more 
generalized AD&D ones, which would require modification to fit the 
character type (again though, this is addressed to a certain extent by 
generating Kits).

> Races (for player characters only): Human, Dwarf (I just don't see
> mention of elves, half-elves, halflings, etc. in the books).

There are a number of different races mentioned, though humans will almost 
entirely predominate any LW RPG in order to maintain the reality and flavor 
present in the Lone Wolf books.  Other character-level-intelligence races 
(not counting evil ones, anyway, or ones that would never be player 
characters) included Drodarin dwarves, Drodarin giants, Kloons, Orgons, and 
a number of others.  However, one only has to look at the LW books to see 
that, outside of their respective areas, one rarely finds races other than 
humans (the Bor dwarves clock in at the next most common, but that isn't 
saying much; and the other races barely show up at all, if ever).

Frank

From:	Rick Grotzky
> Wouldn't a low level Kai be boring to play though?  I mean, all they do 
is
> study at the monastery until they reach the rank of Journeyman, then they
> can travel abroad.

As always, it depends on the game and the setting.  The first of the 
Legends books describes a couple things that Lone Wolf did, before the 
destruction of the Monastery.  It's not likely he was very special, in that 
regard.  In any case though, I would say that Kai were not restricted to 
the monastery until they were journeyman, and therein lies adventure 
potential, at least within the borders of Sommerlund.

Frank

If you skip the lower levels of the Kai lords, you do yourself a great
disservice.  All that initial growth and play is important.

Besides, RPG's are where heroes are born.  Who is to say that the Kai don't
send their initiates out on missions before the rank of Journeyman?  One cool
adventure would be to send a few initiates out with a Grand Master on some
mission.  They become separated, yadda-yadda.

This allows the characters to grow and take on their own skills and character
through game time instead of prep time.  Much more fun.

Carl Reyes

I found this book called Quest: The War-Torn Kingdom
by Dave Morris and Jamie Thomson.  It a trade
paperback with 679 sections.  Has anyone heard of this
series before? It seems interesting, at least by the
instructions and stuff. So, was the $4 I paid for it a
sweet deal or a majot ripoff? 

PS. Just in case people start asking, I'm not gonna
sell it.  I'm just curious.

Tim Fisk

In response to your question (see below), Yes I've heard of the series.  I think
that it is an awesome idea, though the plots don't get as in depth or as in
detail as I would like.  I think I would get more of them (3,4 etc.) if I knew
how to get them.  The cool thing about the series is that all the books are
interrelated.  Considering that you only paid $4 for it I would say you got it
pretty cheaply, I had to pay $10 apiece for each of them that I have.  

Sean-Robert Shaw

Just a thought: does anyone think that the Titan-based books were supposed
to occur in any particular order, apart from FF21 Trial of the Champions
after FF6 Deathtrap Dungeon, etc.?

In my mental "history of Titan", the books happen completely out of order;
e.g. the character from FF51 Island of the Undead went on to complete FF19
Demons of the Deep, FF21 Trial of the Champions and FF7 Island of the
Lizard King, in that order.

Yours,
Daniel Williams

Mine were chronological and, to a very loose extent, interlinked. That was just my 
own idea, though. Everyone had a free rein to fart about however they wanted 
to.

Another key is that 'the character' was not really a core FF concept. Certain 
writers occasionally lapsed into it, out of habit, being role-players (and I certainly 
fall into this category) but we were supposed to play down the extent to which 
YOU was divorced from you (if you see what I mean).

----
Best wishes

Paul Mason

This is the order that I think some of the books go (assuming that it the 
same hero carried over from each book).

-(7 or 19), 21, and 36.
-9, 3, 14, and 26 - although, if 26 continued from 14, you should     still 
be able to use magic (oh well).
-25 and 45.

Also, is it just me, or does the cook's servant (p113, Phantoms of Fear) 
look suspiciously similar to White Spy, from the Spy Vs Spy comic?

Lachlan Austin

Does anyone remember LW being appointed baron, or protector, or
something like that, of the North?  Or was it the Southern Marches???

Carl Reyes

In book three, LW was named Fryearl of Sommerlund and given the kai monastery and much of the surrounding land, which in now called Fryelund and under his protection.
 

President Jusin of RWF

>In LW9 he is bestowed the title of a general in the sommlending army, the
>youngest general ever (at the time he was still young, i think early 20s or
>late teens?).

what was i thinking? I mean early 30s or late 20s.

Sam Bowker

LW 2 : King Ulnar named Lone Wolf "Fryearl of Fryelund".
LW 5 : Lone Wolf reach the rank of "Kaï Master".
LW 7 : Lone Wolf is recongnized by the Elder Magi as the legendary "Kor
Skarn".
LW 9 : King Ulnar named Lone Wolf general (in french : Maréchal de Guerre
des Etats Royaux, that could be translated by "Royal States War Marshal",
but I would be curious to know what's the title in the original version).
LW 9 : Lone Wolf is proclaimed "Liberator of Tahou".
LW 12 : Lone Wolf reach the rank of "Kaï Grand Master".
LW 13 : Great Elector Manatine confered to Lone Wolf the Gold Star of
Palmyrion.
LW 20 : Lone Wolf reach the rank of "Kaï Supreme Grand Master".

Furthermore, I think that Lone Wolf is honorary citizen of many cities :
Ruanon, Gamir (former Darke),...

Fabrice Cadillon

> LW 2 : King Ulnar named Lone Wolf "Fryearl of Fryelund".
                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I realize something may be lost in the French translation, but that's not a
title.  It's like naming someone "Duke of Dukedom" or "King of Kingdom".  LW
is named a Fryearl, and the lands around the Monastery are designated as his
Fryelund.

Ben Krefetz

Hi you lot,

I've recently been looking over my Fighting Fantasy collection and here are
the cover illustrations that I like and dislike the most:

Like: Temple of Terror, Appointment with F.E.A.R., Black Vein Prophecy,
Legend of the Shadow Warriors,  Moonrunner, Curse of the Mummy. (Plus Out of
the Pit and Dungeoneer).

Dislike: Slaves of the Abyss, Dead of Night, Tower of Destruction, Return to
Firetop Mountain, Island of the Undead, Legend of Zagor, Magehunter.

Some of these choices may seem strange. Possibly few other people really
like Appointment with FEAR or Black Vein Prophecy, but there's just
something about them that appeals to me. But I think I'm with a lot of
people with Shadow Warriors and Moonrunner.

I thought that, what with it being number 50 and all, Return to Firetop
could have been much better (but that's saying nothing about the
illustrations within, which are amongst the best of any book). Most of the
ones I dislike just don't inspire me (look at Tower of Destruction and
Magehunter) and the others are just downright unappealing.

Of course, the quality of the illustration says nothing about the quality of
the book. Or does it? (Based on my lists, probably not).

So what does everyone else think? Are you all lovers of Magehunter?

Ta.

Richard Stanton

Richard Stanton wrote on Jul 22:

>Like: Temple of Terror, Appointment with F.E.A.R., Black Vein Prophecy,
>Legend of the Shadow Warriors,  Moonrunner, Curse of the Mummy. (Plus Out of
>the Pit and Dungeoneer).

I'm glad to hear that someone likes Black Vein Prophecy, because I designed it, 
and I think it's awful.

>Dislike: Slaves of the Abyss, Dead of Night, Tower of Destruction, Return to
>Firetop Mountain, Island of the Undead, Legend of Zagor, Magehunter.

One of the issues with the cover was that it acted as a microcosm for the series 
itself. You had to work within a relatively narrow set of guidelines. This 
_particularly_ rankled with me after the cover of the Riddling Reaver was modified 
from a good rough, to Steve Jackson's version in which the Riddling Reaver himself 
turned into a lizard man (what the hell was that all about?). I blame Peter Andrew 
Jones for this, but I'm probably being unfair. Steve J insisted on this dominant 
single figure logic, which I think removes the whole dynamic from the picture (so 
we're left with a lizard man in a silly costume in the middle of the picture).

You can see that Steve Williams and I reacted to this in an extreme manner with 
Slaves of the Abyss (which I have to say is my favourite FF cover). Black Vein 
Prophecy is another attempt to get away from the dominant single figure logic, but 
what I hadn't thought about was that it's far too centred, too much at rest, and 
too much the product of my philosophical preoccupations, rather than just being 
an attempt at a good picture.

I can understand why you don't like Magehunter. Personally I still prefer the rough 
version my wife did to try to persuade Puffin to do this version (they were going 
with a picture of a spiky monster, which would have been utterly out of keeping 
with the content of the book). I have a 118K GIF version of this rough which I'd be 
interested in comments on, but I suspect it's unwise to start sending attachments 
to the list. So if you want to have a look at it, go to
http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~panurge/mage1.gif

Let me know what you think. Bear in mind it's only a rough.

>Some of these choices may seem strange. Possibly few other people really
>like Appointment with FEAR or Black Vein Prophecy, but there's just
>something about them that appeals to me. But I think I'm with a lot of
>people with Shadow Warriors and Moonrunner.

Personally I found the Moonrunner cover dull, a typical implementation of the single 
figure logic, and not at all representative of the atmosphere of the contents.

>So what does everyone else think? Are you all lovers of Magehunter?

Ah. A cruel jest, to be sure.

----
Best wishes

Paul Mason

Andrew Wright wrote on Jul 1:

>I think you're being a bit hard on yourself Paul.

Oh, I'm not being hard on myself. Magehunter is pretty well the only FF book I 
actually like. I was simply reporting the conclusions of others.

>Magehunter was pretty good 
>and very weird, especially in the right frame of mind. I particularly liked 
>the story teller's sequence at the end, where, without any warning, you 
>suddenly find yourself caught up in Tales of the Arabian Nights. Certainly 
>more interesting than Keith Martin or Luke Sharp's later efforts. Fangs of 
>Fury anyone?

One of the few I have, I seem to recall, though I'm not sure why. By the way, I 
think Keith Martin is actually Carl Sargeant's pseudonym, from the time when 
he was too embarrassed about writing FF. Can't say I understand why: he was 
writing D&D and all kinds of similar stuff at the time.

----
Best wishes

Paul Mason

I've seen the cover, and I must say, I think it's very good. Why the hell
didn't Puffin go with this? And, it would have been good to have a woman
illustrate a 'male' book. (With 'male' meaning male written, illustrated,
and mostly, read).

Ta.

Richard Stanton

Tristan Taylor wrote on  :

>Just managed to look at some of the 350 e-mails that were waiting for me
>since my vacation, and it appeared that everybody was giving you their
>opinions on Magehunter. Like a lot of people, I was very confused by the
>concepts in Magehunter, and I hastily dismissed the book. Since getting the
>solution at Mark Popp's page (!), I gained a greater appreciation for the
>book, especially for it's non-linearity (something which was rare amongst
>the later FF books). I also liked the front page, with the "How to kill a
>mage..." (or whatever it was) section.

I dislike linearity in role-playing, and I carry that attitude over to gamebooks. It 
seems to me that many people who write gamebooks/rolegames are simply 
wannabe novelists. But if you write a linear format in this media, what's the point?

Having said that, it takes a fair amount of work to consider the plot of a true 
multi-strand adventure, and I guess many writers simply couldn't be bothered.

>In fact, even in
>my later years, coming up with an original idea was a hard thing to do (plus
>I could never seem to write the mandatory 400 paragraphs!), so I appreciate
>the efforts and the lengths that you authors go to to write such high
>quality stories. Well, enough of my ramblings.

400 paragraphs was a ludicrously arbitrary number. With many of my books, I 
had trouble cutting the story down to 400 (Black Vein prophecy had a whole 
subplot involving lake people cut from it) and it was only with Magehunter that I 
managed to plan pretty much on the button.

But of course, coming up with ideas is always tough, and a large proportion of the 
time, the idea you come up with has been done before. I have terrible trouble 
with plot structuring, and in some ways, I find the multi-thread approach of 
gamebooks makes things easier for me. I'm now working on a novel, and I find 
having to write a single path tremendously restrictive!

----
Best wishes

Paul Mason

I've had a look at the rejected Magehunter cover, and I don't see anything
at all wrong with it. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's that rare the
sort of cover that would make me *want* to read the book, just to find
out what the story behind it was about.

Actually, there were very few FF covers I can think of that I actively
disliked (I haven't got the books with me to refresh my memory). The worst
that springs to mind was the original (UK) cover for FF2, which simply 
depicted a long queue of monsters standing outside a tower. I didn't
find "Deathmoor" (can't remember the number) especially appealing either.

Graham Hart

Dear List:-

>I've had a look at the rejected Magehunter cover, and I don't see anything
>at all wrong with it. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's that rare the
>sort of cover that would make me *want* to read the book, just to find
>out what the story behind it was about.

The rejected cover was okay, I liked the creature but the human looked really ugly.  Nonetheless, even though it's supposed to be a rough draft, the art is still superior to the "real" cover.

>Actually, there were very few FF covers I can think of that I actively
>disliked (I haven't got the books with me to refresh my memory). The worst

It's exactly the opposite for me!  There are very few FF covers that I really LIKED.  Most are so and so, but a few are UNBEARABLY bad:-

All 4 books of the Sorcery series... even the illustrations found within the books were bad, Deathtrop Dungeon, Scorpion Swamp, Rings of Kether, Masks of Mayhem (the body posture was TOTALLY un-natural, Creature of Havoc, Phantoms of Fear (what the hell was that?), Slaves of the Abyss (the illustrations in the book were great!), Sky Lord (hate the yellow background), Portal of Evil (zombie with large reptile, wow-wee...), Black Vein Prophecy (the purple hooded guy looked like it was drawn by a 6 year old kid...) Magehunter.  Paul Mason's books seemed to have been all cursed with ugly covers, unfortunate.

>that springs to mind was the original (UK) cover for FF2, which simply 
>depicted a long queue of monsters standing outside a tower. I didn't
>find "Deathmoor" (can't remember the number) especially appealing either.

I really liked the covers of Caverns of the Snow Witch (loved that realistic looking orc), Talisman of Death (grim reaper riding a flying horse, neat!), Seas of Blood, Demons of the Deep (that skeleton looks COOL!), Legend of Shadow Warriors (Pumpkinhead dude looks eerily good), Island of the Undead (the ghostly apparition looks great.)

>Graham Hart
>gh115@hermes.cam.ac.uk

Michael Wong

Well, I'm also going to say that I thought (Paul Mason's) wife's cover was
superior to the actual printed cover. It's too bad that you had to
follow such stringent rules when it came to the covers (who knows what
kind of awesome art there would have been otherwise), but still,
personnally, I thought that the quality of the covers has always been
very good. Of course, in a series of 59 books, it's inevitable that a
couple aren't going to be that great. On the other hand, Paul, I
couldn't agree with you more about the Riddling Reaver cover. I always
thought that he looked like a Lizard Man, and now I know I'm not alone!!
I thought the interior art was much better, especially the Replicanths.
Happy trails,

Ben Pearson

Richard Stanton wrote on Jul 22:

>I've seen the cover, and I must say, I think it's very good. Why the hell
>didn't Puffin go with this? And, it would have been good to have a woman
>illustrate a 'male' book. (With 'male' meaning male written, illustrated,
>and mostly, read).

Sadly, the story of that cover is the story of Fighting Fantasy (at one point 
it even looked like I was going to have to pay for it out of my own pocket, 
just to get away from the spiky monster - which became the inspiration 
behind the Wailing World, so poor Ian Miller could get to use his sketch). 
Happily, Puffin were either kind, or inefficient enough to forget this, and Ian 
Miller seemed happy with the book of Japanese prints I sent him by way of 
an apology.

I don't think they would ever have accepted a cover by Keiko, though. 
She's not an 'established artist' and, perhaps more to the point, she's not 
male.

Michael Wong wrote on Jul 23:

>The rejected cover was okay, I liked the creature but the human looked 
really ugly.

It was supposed to represent the reader...

>All 4 books of the Sorcery series... even the illustrations found within the 
books were bad, Deathtrop Dungeon, Scorpion Swamp, Rings of Kether, 
Masks of Mayhem (the body posture was TOTALLY un-natural, Creature of 
Havoc, Phantoms of Fear (what the hell was that?), Slaves of the Abyss 
(the illustrations in the book were great!),

This shows how much it comes down to taste. For a lot of people, Bob 
Harvey's illustrations weren't very appealing. He had a habit of using huge 
swathes of black to avoid having to draw in a background. Personally I 
thought his work had a lot of atmosphere, and I guess probably influenced 
some of our instructions to Terry Oakes for Black Vein Prophecy (especially 
the coffin scene opposite para 389).

> Sky Lord (hate the yellow background), Portal of Evil (zombie with large 
reptile, wow-wee...), Black Vein Prophecy (the purple hooded guy looked 
like it was drawn by a 6 year old kid...) Magehunter.  Paul Mason's books 
seemed to have been all cursed with ugly covers, unfortunate.

You didn't mention Crimson Tide...

----
Best wishes

Paul Mason

Michael Wong wrote:

> >I've had a look at the rejected Magehunter cover, and I don't see anything
> >at all wrong with it. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's that rare the
> >sort of cover that would make me *want* to read the book, just to find
> >out what the story behind it was about.
> 
> The rejected cover was okay, I liked the creature but the human looked
> really ugly.  Nonetheless, even though it's supposed to be a rough draft,
> the art is still superior to the "real" cover.

Even as a rough draft, I think it exudes a dynamism that, in general, is
absent from most FF covers, which more often than not seem to me just
fairly static representations of one monster or another - not actually
unattractive (far better than anything I could do, anyway), but not
outstanding either. From this point of view I liked the cover painting of
"Tower of Destruction", which I found quite dynamic and eye-catching.

> I really liked the covers of Caverns of the Snow Witch (loved that
> realistic looking orc), Talisman of Death (grim reaper riding a flying
> horse, neat!), Seas of Blood, Demons of the Deep (that skeleton looks
> COOL!), Legend of Shadow Warriors (Pumpkinhead dude looks eerily good),
> Island of the Undead (the ghostly apparition looks great.)

No disagreement with you there. The Demons of the Deep, Shadow Warriors,
and Island of the Undead covers in particular were all very atmospheric,
I thought.

This brings to mind what may be a very stupid question, but it's been
so long since I last read Caverns of the Snow Witch that I no longer
remember very much about it. That "orc" on the cover: who exactly is
it? I was wondering whether it might actually be meant to represent
the reader ("YOU"), which would be interesting, because I can't for
the moment recall any other illustration in an FF book that attempts to
depict the reader's character in any way.

Graham Hart

At one stage in the book, you enter a cave with a globe in the middle of the 
floor. The Snow Witch talks a bit, and then demonstrates that she still has 
a lot of power(or something like that) by making an Orc enter the room, and 
then she strangles it with its magic collar.

Lachlan Austin

Ah, right, that explains it.

Actually, now I've had a think about it, one example of a depiction of
YOU does bob to the surface of my mind: as I recall, the cover of
"Legend of Zagor" shows portraits of the four adventurers, one of whom
you have to choose as your character.

Graham Hart

Don't forget the cover to US #1, with the infintely superior covers of Rich
Corben. That slightly heroic, yet dorky lad picked me out from across a library in
8th grade and made me walk across to get him, so effective was the image.
--
Randy G

>I don't think they would ever have accepted a cover by Keiko, though. 
>She's not an 'established artist' and, perhaps more to the point, she's not 
>male.

That's very sad to hear, there are a lot great female artists.  I play a fantasy card game called Magic and they feature the works of many great female artists...  Terese Nielson and Kaja Foglio are better than most FF cover illustrators (just my humble opinion).  Keiko... wasn't the female ambassador in Crimson Tide also called Keiko?  (don't have the book beside me).

>Michael Wong wrote on Jul 23:
>
>>The rejected cover was okay, I liked the creature but the human looked 
>really ugly.
>
>It was supposed to represent the reader...

Well, I suppose I should have said "I looked really ugly" then.  8P

> Slaves of the Abyss 
>(the illustrations in the book were great!),
>
>This shows how much it comes down to taste. For a lot of people, Bob 
>Harvey's illustrations weren't very appealing. He had a habit of using huge 
>swathes of black to avoid having to draw in a background. Personally I 
>thought his work had a lot of atmosphere, and I guess probably influenced 

Atmospheric is EXACTLY the word I have in mind, thanks.  The background really isn't as important to me as some other people, but ugly single coloured backgrounds (a la Skylord...) is unacceptable.  I used to think of Bob Harvey's swathes of black are shadows though.

>some of our instructions to Terry Oakes for Black Vein Prophecy (especially 
>the coffin scene opposite para 389).

The illustrations in Black Vein Prophecy are okay, the one with the sitting monk vs. the Sturramak (sp?) was very cool.

>> Sky Lord (hate the yellow background), Portal of Evil (zombie with large 
>reptile, wow-wee...), Black Vein Prophecy (the purple hooded guy looked 
>like it was drawn by a 6 year old kid...) Magehunter.  Paul Mason's books 
>seemed to have been all cursed with ugly covers, unfortunate.
>
>You didn't mention Crimson Tide...

I didn't dislike Crimson Tide's cover as much as those other I've mentioned.  I think the asian hell-scene to be very effective to convey how hellish that period on the isles was and the a certain degree, the horror that the child (protagonist) had to live through.  The two guards aren't exactly "Bull head" and "Horse Face", were you interested in Chinese religion at that time?  Note that even Judge Bao had his guards play the hell's judgement scene once.

>----
>Best wishes
>
>Paul Mason
>Outlaws/imazine http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~panurge

Michael Wong

This thing about never portraying the hero in the art work of FF books. Yes,
your character is portrayed on the cover of #54, but only because it relates
to the board game "Legend of Zagor" which would have been a little pointless
if your own character wasn't portrayed. Also, you do get to see your shadow
in Scorpion Swamp and Creature of Havoc so you get to see what shape you
are. There are also two other cover-pictures of yourself, firstly the covers
of Clash of the Princes and, more surprisingly that no one has mentioned it
yet, Midnight Rogue in which you see the figure of a cowled thief (You)
climbing through an open window or something.
-Aardvark of Doom

Yes, you also get so see your shadow in Forest of Doom; but have you seen
it!? It makes you look about 25 stone and dressed like a cave-man! (Your
hair appears long and your outline is depicted as if you're wearing furs)
(Para 204).

And of course, the one body part that constantly crops up in illustrations
is your hand. Off the top of my head: Crypt of the Sorcerer (para 339),
Armies of Death (para 230), Black Vein Prophecy (para 399)The Crimson Tide
(para 198). It's Battleblade Warrior, though, that wins the 'most body parts
in a book' contest. First, you stabbing a Lizard Man (112), the bleeding
room (216), falling down an old well - you see one leg (281) and finally
(346) where, strangely, you get to see your hand from 'the other side' as it
were, as you reach for the key surrounded by spiders.

Here's a question for you lot. Does anyone know which book shows you a
picture of you're own feet?

>Anyway, while talking of covers, on the original artwork for Citadel of
>Chaos (by Emmanuel if I remember rightly) does anyone know what the hell
>that black/grey, hairy thing is?

I assume your worst nightmare. If, that is, ravenous 'Care Bears' worry you
;-)

Richard Stanton

You lot really are a mine of pointless information, so I suppose that I fit
in perfectly here.

In response to Rich's question ("In which book do you get to see your own
feet") I'm sure that there's more than one, something carwling over your
feet in one book, but off the top of my head the only one that I'm sure of
is when you get caught in the crab grass in Scorpion Swamp. I unfortunately
don't know the paragraph number but I think it's one of the last
illustrations in the book (The book which began this whole obsession for
me - going down WHSmiths with a £2 book token I'd been given for my eighth
birthday).

Okay then, as I've spoit one task set for you lot I'll set you another.
Martin McKenna used British film actors as models for his illustrations.
Name two, the characters they are meant to be and the book in which they
appear (and yes, the singular use of "book" is a clue)
-Aardvark of Doom

Hey, now that's easy, isn't it? I mean, I'm not even very knowledgeable about 
FF but can at least part answer that without even stirring from my seat. Didn't 
Vincent Price and Peter Lorre appear in Moonrunner? Can't remember the 
characters they are meant to be, but I'll leave that to more dedicated souls, 
since I can't be bothered to walk the five feet to my bookshelf.

----
Best wishes

Paul Mason

Sorry, Paul the task set was which two BRITISH film actors were used as
models. Neither Price nor Lorre were British, even though old Vincent often
used to sound as if he was.
-Aardvark of Doom

Must remember to log off the computer _before_ I fall asleep...

Apart from Freddie Jones, then, I can't imagine who you might be one about 
here.

----
Best wishes

Paul Mason

Okay, I give in, it seems that you're not going to get it. Its in #58
Revenge of the Vampire and the two British Actors are:

Peter Cushing as the Gatekeeper (Para 262)
Derek Jacoby(Sp?) as Siegfried Heydrich
-Aardvark of Doom

I think it's Jacobi with an "i", since you asked.

Jam Norman

>Anyway, while talking of covers, on the original artwork for Citadel of
>Chaos (by Emmanuel if I remember rightly) does anyone know what the hell
>that black/grey, hairy thing is?

Is this a different cover than the one with the green whirlwind in front of
the castle with a red sky background? I thought _that_ was the original, so
why do you refer to this other one as original...? Never seen it before that
I can remember.

Cheers,
Svein

The original British releases of "Citadel of Chaos" came with the
black/grey creature that was referred to earlier. As far as know, this
creature was not in the book itself, and the artwork was relatively poor
(the creature looked very two-dimensional). I can scan in a picture of this
cover if you want to see it, but it's not rare by any means!

When the "green" books were released, this artwork was originally carried
over, but was quickly replaced with the green whirlwind (presumably the
whirlwind girl you meet in the Black Tower's courtyard, but the picture
seems to depict a male "whirlwind").

Of the two, the latter is (IMO) the better artwork, but the first is that
which I will alsways consider to be the "true" cover. It's the one I had as
a kid. :)

Were there any other (British) covers that changed their artwork? I know
the late editions of "Warlock of FT" had new artwork, but it was basically
a newer version of the same concept. Except for Citadel, I can't think of
any that had a complete change...?

Nathan Page

Yes, I'd love to see it, please!

I did not know there was an earlier version of this cover. I have two
different versions of this book and they both use the green whirlwind-cover.
That was also the cover they used for the Norwegian translation back in '86.
That is the cover that will always be 'original' to me I guess - the kid
thing again. :-)

Cheers,
Svein

--- "Fred M. Sloniker" <lazuli@fidalgo.net> wrote:

> ...and I apologize for asking something that's probably in a FAQ
someplace, but I wasn't able to locate it.

> What are the differences between the US and UK versions of the 'Lone
Wolf' books?  Is it just 'color/colour' stuff, or am I going to miss
out on something cool if I order the US version?

There's no difference between the US and UK versions in books 1-12
aside from different cover art, but the US versions of books 13-20 were
abridged (several of them,  especially book 14, had some really bad
errors in it).  Books 21-28 were distributed only in the U.K. and a
couple of other countries (but not the U.S.)

If you want more info on this, you can check Jonathan Blake's web site
at http://www.lw-oasis.org.

Steve Farrar

basically, the US versions are cheaper (in quality) than their British 
counterparts.  In my personal experience, the US versions are made out of 
flimsier paper and tears more easily, and the binding is poor, so pages have 
an annoying tendancy to tear out.  To save printing costs or something, the 
maps in the front (and, in later printings, the back) are in black and white, 
while they're in color in the UK versions.  Beyond that, there really isn't 
much difference between the two, until book 13.

B13 starts the grandmaster series.  Berkley, in a constant, HMOesque attempt 
to save as much money as possible, decided to cheapify the books even more 
and take out as many as 50 sections from the books.  Finally, they got bored 
with the whole thing, said screw this, and didn't bring books 21-28 to the US.

If Joe finds a good publisher, hopefully they'll finally give the US and 
France the books they deserve... not to mention 5 or 6 more :-)

King Wumpus

Ok I hope someone knows what i'm talking about here....
I distinctly remember having to fight a dismembered corpose  There was a
picture of the corpse as well with the head floating above the torso and the
arms and legs floating on their own as well...
I'm pretty sure though not exactly sure that these books where slightly
oversized paperbacks not the usual paperback size...
I for some reason seem to recall that there was also a part where you had a
coin or something grafted magically in your skin as a shield at some point
but i can't say for certin.
I hope someone can help me based on these vague fragments.

Thanks

Mike T

This was the second book in the Sorcery gamebook series, "Khare, Cityport of Traps".  I really hated the kissing part in the Temple of Courga.  Note that they don't have the option of kissing Courga's ass or licking his boots.  I doubt anyone who solved this book got through this part without cheating.  This sort of puzzles are exceedingly lame.

Michael Wong

Since I don't have a color-map version of Flight from the Dark, could
someone who does be so kind as to look at the map, and describe the
colors on the Magicians Guild of Toran banner and Royal Arms of Durenor?
The banner of Crown Prince Pelethar would also be helpful. I have the
colors for the others thanks to Rune War.

Jon Blake

>Since I don't have a color-map version of Flight from the Dark, could
>someone who does be so kind as to look at the map, and describe the
>colors on the Magicians Guild of Toran banner and Royal Arms of Durenor?

The Royal Arms of Durenor is a white mountain outline and stars on a navy 
blue background, and the Magicians guild banner is a gold moon and stars on 
a light purple/ violet background.

>The banner of Crown Prince Pelethar would also be helpful. I have the
>colors for the others thanks to Rune War.

The Crown Prince banner is a white pegasus and cloud, with three gold stars 
on a red backround, with a blue and green alternating outline.

Hope that helps,

Mark Robins

I made a few changes in the fairly diced-up US edition of
LW #14 -The Captives of Kaag.

    First, to answer your question (hopefully), on page 31 the
paragraph ends "... and you find yourself falling headlong into
coal-black darkness."
    I changed the rest of entry 31 to read simply  "Turn to 28."
The book tries to have you roll from the Random Number Table,
but the results for one of the outcomes has been edited from the
book, so only one outcome is possible, and that is 28.

    Some of the following corrections should help as well:

P.10 - cross out "Kai-Alchemy." Replace with "Magi-Magic."
P.42 - change 147 to123.
P. 51 - After the words "... there now stand likenesses of Darklord
    Slutar." I added the following:
    "If you wish to keep a statuette of Darklord Slutar mark it on your
    Action Chart as a special item which you keep in your backpack."
    (I copied this from a similar reference on page 282. I can find no
    other sections where a statue of Slutar may be obtained, yet you
    do get asked for one at a future time, so I made what I believe to
    be a necessary adjustment. Was that wrong? )
P. 181 - change 286 to 269.
P. 193 - change 147 to 123.
P. 195 - cross out "Brotherhood." Replace with "Elder Magi."
P.  207 - cross out "Kai-Surge." Replace with "Kai-Screen."
P. 264 - change 147 to 123.

Does that help?

 Steven Kunz

The information held by you lot about FF seems to range from the pedantic
detail (those who can tell you which reference number of a book showed the
picture of the best shoes) to those who can't even remember the living
corpse in Sorcery #2 (And as the Sorcery series went out of print briefly
when I wanted to buy them so I had to translate French copies I consider
myself something of an expert on that series). I wish to test you, just to
see if there are really the true FF fanatics that I hope there are out
there. I asked one question but got bored waiting for the response so I
answered it myself . There are three questions to be answered, each with the
grand prize for the answerer of being a FF nut, and anyone who can answer
all three being the god of all FF anoraks (sorry, is the term "anorak" for a
sad, obsessed person just a British thing?).

1) In which month did the siege of Vymorna begin? (Either Gregorian or
Allansian calendars will be accepted)
2) Book #54 - "Legend of Zagor" - was in fact a spin-off from two sources
(both by Ian Livingstone). One was the Zagor Chronicles, the other was a
board game. What was the name of that board game.
3) Which FF book first gave the name of the Fighting Fantasy world as being
Titan.

Okay, three questions asked. You need not bother yourselves with answering
them but by doing so you will at least allow yourself the recognition as the
obsessive fans that you know you really are.
-Aardvark of Doom

We've done alignment, so lets go further with Lone Wolf-AD&D stuff. I'd
say...
Str 18/50
Dex 18
Con 18
Int 18
Wis 18
Chr Uhh, 18

Hmm, seems like the perfect munchkin. Oh I can't resist...
AL LG
Hit Points 200

Any comments?
-- 
Luke Goaman-Dodson

Well put me in for working on the LW gamebook, I'd like to see what kind of
thing people want. Personally
I think 'the skull of agarash' is perfect although the Claws of Helgedad is
another option. I have a few
queries about it and I wouldn't mind getting some feedback. 
 1 - at what point in time (between which books) should it occur
 2 - should it strictly follow the book and be linear or should there be
other pathways and routes to take
which we didn't see in the graphic novel.
 3 - how long should it be?

Hey I just had a great idea, if it went into the whole series I could
actually make a use for the jeweled mace and crystal star pendant!!!!

Campbell Pentney

There's also the LW PhoneQuest titled "The Forbidden Tower". If someone has 
info on that maybe a gamebook can also be made out of it.

Mohamed

I think the phone quest was based on the book Castle Death anyway (or at 
least the one I played here in the UK years ago was), so that would be a 
somewhat pointless operation.

Mark Robins

My idea of what I was thinking of writing hopefully wasn't going to involve Lone
Wolf.  He might be in part of it, but it would center around another character
or class (like the story of Banedon in the old MC), but I suppose it is whatever
floats the jive of whoever else is working on it as well.

Sean-Robert Shaw

Sorry about long message:
I have played the Lone Wolf books for many years, and there has been
a constant problem that I cannot seem to find an answer to.  When you
start the game at Book 1, you role to see how much endurance and combat
skill are.  After you complete a book, do you get any more endurance or
combat skill?  Keeping the same basic e & cs seem to be playable early
on, but I always get stuck on Book 11: The Prisoners of Time.  When I
get to the Chaos Master, I die.  At the time, I would have to
Sommerswerd,
which sets the Chaos Master at  47 C.S. and 68 Endurance.  If you had
rolled a 9 in both CS and E, than you would have 19CS and 29E.
Possible bonuses:
+2 CS if in Circle of the Spirit.
+4 CS if having a weapon with weaponmastery, and Scion-Kai( from read all
books up to that point)
+4 CS for Psi-Surge
+5 CS if you have all the circles but light (which is impossible, i
think)
That gives you a grand to total of:
34 CS
You can increase that a little by using equipment like a shield or
temporary
items that increase CS; possibly bringing the total to about 40 CS (which
would be nearly if not impossible)
That gives you -7 Combat Ratio, which would put the odds extreamly far
against you.
Whenever I get to him, I have -11 or greater ratio.  I instantly die on
1's and 2's,
while the maximum damage I can inflict is 6E per round, forcing me to get
0
for 12 turns straight to win.
HMMMMMMMMMMMM
Any clues?  How did you guys beat him?

One other question:  What is the limit on special items?
One per place, or what?
Can you have more than one chainmail waistcoat in effect?

Jason Smith

Any clues?  How did you guys beat him?

19 initial score
  8 Sommeswerd
  5 Lore circles (not impossible at that point, I think)
  4 Weaponmastery bonus for Scion-Kai
  4 Psi-surge
  2 Silver Helmet (from book 3)
  2 shield

Someone please double check this but I think its correct. That's all I can
think of and that's still a CS of 44.
Quite honestly, the Chaos-Master never really frightened me. Not like Zakhan
Kimah; I'm still scared of Book 9!

One other question:  What is the limit on special items?

I believe it is twelve unless otherwise specified.

One per place, or what?
Can you have more than one chainmail waistcoat in effect?

I wouldn't, but I guess it's up to you. Would you really wear 5 chainmail
waistcoats just to up your CS? Somehow I don't think that's in the spirit of
the game...

-Joel Showman

At this point you can have,
19 Basic CS
 8 Sommerwerd (You left this out...)
 2 Circle of the Spirit (extra bonus)
 4 Lore Circles (If you complete Lore Circle of Light, you have 2 extra
EP in LW 11, but one less CS in LW 12. Assuming that the skills you
don't have in LW 11 is Pathsmanship and Invisiblility. You could
probably use this extra EP in LW 11.)
 2 Silver Helmet
 4 Weaponmastery in Sword
 2 Potion of Alether
 2 Shield
 4 Psi-Surge (As you can see below, you're slightly better off NOT using
it...)

Total of 47 if you use Psi-surge.

Avarage damage (Pick one of each random number and add together the
damage)
CR = -4 ==> Enemy 55// Lone Wolf 30, 55/30 = 1.833
CR = 0 ==> Enemy 75// Lone Wolf 21 + 20, 75/41 = 1.829

In addition you may want to use the following:
 +2 CS if you have Weaponskill in Shortsword, Sword or Broadsword (Some
players use that Weaponskill is cumulative with Weaponmastery. I think
the chance for this is 40%.)

You can have +5 CS in Lorecircle, but then you wouldn't have Curing and
Animal Control. Personally I don't carry over the Healing bonus from the
Kai books, so this would leave me with no EP restoration after fighting
the Chaos-Master which is very hazardous. So personally, I don't see
this as an option.

> You can increase that a little by using equipment like a shield or
> temporary
> items that increase CS; possibly bringing the total to about 40 CS (which
> would be nearly if not impossible)
> That gives you -7 Combat Ratio, which would put the odds extreamly far
> against you.
> Whenever I get to him, I have -11 or greater ratio.  I instantly die on
> 1's and 2's,
> while the maximum damage I can inflict is 6E per round, forcing me to get
> 0
> for 12 turns straight to win.
> HMMMMMMMMMMMM
> Any clues?  How did you guys beat him?
> 

See above the ratios. If you want to maximize everything you can get a
+2 Combat Ratio (using Psi-Surge, but do note that in this case you're
better off not using Psi-Surge and instead fight the Chaos Master on the
-2 column. (But a combat ratio of +1 with Psi-Surge would be better than
-3 without Psi-Surge, and +3 with Psi-Surge is better than -1 without
Psi-Surge.)

Average damage (Pick one of each random number and add together the
damage)
CR = -2 ==> Enemy 65// Lone Wolf 26, 65/26 = 2.5
CR = +2 ==> Enemy 86// Lone Wolf 20 + 20, 86/40 = 2.15

At CR -2 LW deals 2.5 EP damage per EP lost, at CR +2 using Psi-Surge he
deals 2.15 EP damage per EP lost (on average)

> One other question:  What is the limit on special items?

12

> One per place, or what?

You shouldn't have more than one... Would you wear two Helmets, for
instance??

> Can you have more than one chainmail waistcoat in effect?

If you want to play with some realism you shouldn't have more than one
of this, and if you consider how Lone Wolf normally operates he would
likely scrap this one as well. (It's too heavy to carry around.)

Robert Ekblad

In some of the earlier books the back contains a page for a computer game about Lone Wolf, has anyone seen this software or anything like it?  Also, there are / were minitures available for Lone Wolf, has anyone seen any of these or know where they can be obtained from?  Being a bit of a fan of the Legend series, I was wondering if The Rotting Land is currently the last Legends book and is The Skull of Agarash a stand alone?  Any word on Joe and a new publisher?

Peter Cook

I have seen the miniatures once. They are probably a needle in a haystack 
find. I have no idea about the software. And, No, there is no word from Joe 
yet.......I assure you that I have asked a thousand different sources! I 
will post anything I find out on that issue with much fanfare! Back to 
interrogating.......

MYSTIC SAGE (aka: Don Copous)

Yeah a few months back i downloaded some speccy emulation software and got hold
of the game for that.

It was pretty naff!

Gavin Gallot

Really? What system was it for? I've never seen or heard of it and I'm a
video game freak that is very familiar with many forms of console gaming and
emulation/ROMS. I'm one of the biggest emulation freaks I know and I've been
in the scene for over 3 years now but haven't ever been aware of a Lone Wolf
game for any of the systems. If it's out there I want it!

Jason Leonard

It was on a Spectrum. I actually found 2 different LW roms here:

ftp://ftp.nvg.unit.no/pub/spectrum/snaps/games/unsorted-new/l/
and
ftp://ftp.nvg.unit.no/pub/spectrum/snaps/games/unsorted/l/

For those who don't know, you need a Spectrum emulator to play the rom 
(game) which you can get here:

http://www.emumania.com/indexe.html

If you cannot connect to the ftp site, you can contact me for both rom 
files.

Mohamed

Ah, the good ol' Spectrum. One area of emulation I never got into of all
the areas I have gotten into, as I was never too familiar with the original
system but heard alot about it in my days. Thanks for the information! Now
I'm really curious as to what other kinds of games are for the
Spectrum...and I still haven't checked out Intellivision either but I heard
there are alot of cool D&D games for it (though whether or not they are the
same D&D games for every system that was out at that time, I don't know)...

Jason Leonard

Hello all. Whereas I have been in the computer arena for only a couple of 
years now, I call myself to be about lower-level intermediate as far as the 
overall science is concerned. However, I am a little behind the curve on 
this Spectrum and emulation deal. Would somebody mind explaining it in 
general to me? I thank you in advance. Please mail me directly unless there 
are others out there on the list who are in need of further info as well. 
Thanks.

MYSTIC SAGE (aka: Don Copous)

Hello,

1. You need to download the rom-files.

2. To run the rom-files on your PC you need the emulator. The emulator
simulates the ZX Spectrum on your PC.

3. Unzip the files.

There were several different emulators to pick from and I'm not the
correct person to say which to chose...

However, if you download lwolf-ol.zip and then unzip it, and load it in
the emulator, you'll get up a Flight from the Dark. (The other one I
didn't get anywhere with. I loaded it, but the computer won't respond to
keys. Argghhh!!)

Anyway, if you want to play Flight from the Dark, the following
key-mapping may help:

Combat:
O : Chop
I : Swipe
U : Thrust
E : Step Forward
W : Mindblast
N : Parry
R : Step back
V : Mindhsield
A : Evade (if allowed)

Selection:
1 : Display next choice
9 : Chooses the displayed option
2 : Repeat text
0 : Inventory

This will get you half through the game, then it asks you to load part
2. At the moment I haven't a clue on how to continue as I reckon part 2
would be a different rom and I can't find it.

Regards,
Robert Ekblad

Wild...I couldn't find this Lone Wolf. The one I found must be very
different...you actually play it like a game, it scrolls vertically and you
climb up ladders and dodge gargoyles and make your way up to where you have
to fight your impossible mirrage/clone.

Jason Leonard

Just in case there are others on the list who need further
information...

First, an explanation of an emulator. It is a program that is written on a
computer to "emulate" (definition : to act or behave as) another computer or
console system. The reason this can be done is because all video games and
systems, even though they have their own processors and hardware that are
totally seperate from computers - the way that hardware communicates with
itself is the same as a computer, on a very low level anyhow (assembly).

So basically, with an emulator, a programmer, who probably has little to no
information other than documents he might find on how various video game
systems or computers work with their hardware...tries to write a program
that can understand the same commands and codes as the system he is working
with. This way the program will act just like another computer or video game
system. In doing so, that means just like the original system, it can play
games and do everything that the original could. But the program needs a way
of receiving games into it's memory so it can do something with them. This
is where ROMS come in. Obviously on the original computers or video games,
you had disks that were in a special format, or cartridges that you plugged
into the system. But with modern technology, an exact binary duplicate of
these disks and carts can be transferred to a pc and made into a file. Now
the emulator can load a file that represents a game and as the game
communicates with the emulator, you are able to actually play the game, and
the emulator will output the game the best it can to it's ability. The
quality of the emulator depends on how much knowledge of the original
system's commands that it understands...is put into the coding of the
emulator.

So how do you get started? Well obviously you need an emulator program and
some ROMS. The best place I use to find emulators is http://www.zophar.net
but a good websearch will do. You can search for an emulator for any system
or computer you can dream of. In this case, we are looking at computer
emulators, and more specifically the ZX Spectrum. I highly recommend ZX32,
especially for the Lone Wolf game in particular. It seems to play it best
and most accurately. Another good emulator for this computer is
Multi-Machine, with R80 and X128 not being too bad either. Anyhow, download
what you can find and install what needs to be installed. In the case of the
latter 2 emulators, just unzipping the zip file is enough.

Next you need to look for Spectrum ROMs. A simple web search is usually
enough. I found a site that practically has them all and is selling a cd for
5 british pounds (around $8 US). So it's not a bad deal. But if you just
want to see the Lone Wolf game of old day, then browse a ROM collection in
the l's for Lone Wolf. Then download the file. Even if it is zipped, you do
not have to do anything with the zip file if you are going to use the ZX32
emulator because it can deal with the zip files itself. If you do not use
this emulator, unzip the file to a folder on your hard drive that you can
remember, preferably a folder that is somewhere within the folder you
installed the emulators to.

Once you've got all that done, run your Spectrum emulator by clicking on the
executable or using a shortcut on your Start Menu. Then choose the option
from the menus to "open file" and browse to the folder where you put your
ROMS. Once there, choose the Lone Wolf ROM and tell it to open that file.
The game will load. To play, either view any text files that might have been
installed by the emulator or came with the emulator (in the folder yuo
installed it to) or use the menu bar to configure the emulator to your own
desire, especially controls. ZX32 is nice because it is very customizeable
and lets you use joysticks and all that without alot of trouble.

Hope that helps everyone...anymore questions just ask me...

Jason Leonard

Hello,

You can find them easily on: 
      http://www.med.cz/snapsearch/

(This site hold a search engine to many rom-collections.)

Search for "Lone Wolf", if you need a pure "zip-file" for Flight from
the Dark, you can search for "Flight Dark". (I don't think there was a
pure zip included in the Lone Wolf list.)

Tried to search for LW 3, which is supposed to be entitled "The Ice
Halls of Terror" but found no matches.

The emulator which can be run in windows is named:
     http://www.emumania.com/spectrum/zx32103.exe

(The link to it, indicates zx32103a.exe which gives a link error.)

I see that Jason has already explained most things you need to know in
another mail.

Regards,
Robert Ekblad

Robert Ekblad wrote:

>Tried to search for LW 3, which is supposed to be entitled "The Ice
>Halls of Terror" but found no matches.

Most likely reason for this is that although the game versions of Flight 
from the Dark and Fire on the Water were both released commercially, the 
game based on the Caverns of Kalte was mail order only, hence I can only 
guess that after people played the first two, they hesitated shelling out 
for the third. Incidentally, the first two games could be bought either as 
the game on there own (as a tape obviously), or as the game with the 
corresponding book (original UK editions). How rare complete packs of the 
game and the book together are is anyones guess as I've only seen them once 
and that was several years ago.

Mark Robins

Okay, I don't want to be a wet blanket, but...

I used to write programs in BASIC.  This got old REALLY fast.  When DOS-based,
then Windows-based computers came around, I left my Commodore behind and never
looked back.  Same thing with my N64.  I haven't seen an Atari 2600 in at least
fifteen years (and I'm only 24!), and I have never seen a Spectrum.

Books are a timeless way to enjoy a story.  LW are the absolute best RPG
gamebooks I have ever seen, and rate pretty high on my overall list of fantasy
fiction.

But this game is astonishingly..... bad.  The graphics are cheesy, the interface
is something I could have written when I was five (and most kids can write
before they're three now), and the gameplay is a joke.  When you've honed your
reflexes to handle the multitude of controls for an N64, or the 30-40 key
commands for Baldur's Gate or Fallout, this just doesn't compare.  Even for a
die-hard fan of LW like me.

Which isn't to say I think it's a bad concept!  I just think it should be
updated (WAY updated.  Even a text-based adventure with some graphics done the
right way would be better).  Maybe JD should talk to Interplay or Black Isle
(makers of Fallout and Baldur's Gate).  They could make a kick-ass game.  And
since RPG's are hot again, maybe they'd actually be interested?

My two cents.

Carl Reyes

Ok,

First off, the Lone Wolf ZX Spectrum game is not one of the better games
to be written on that platform... However, in the days when ZX Spectrum
was the latest you could get, this game was far from the worst, but alas
also a bit too far from the best.

The ZX Spectrum that was available when this game was written had:
16 kROM (Contents can't be changed.)
48 kRAM -- Of the 48 kRAM I think about 7kB is dedicated to the screen
and to system variables, i.e. it's used as graphic memory.

Remains 41 kB. This 41 kB is all you got to meddle around with. You have
no file system on which to save data, you have a tape station (which
they used becuase the program became too big), but normally at that
point you had a loading time of 5 minutes (provided the load from the
tape was successful).

Then consider that 20kB (probably more) is used to store the text
strings which are echoed and which you need for the game, then perhaps
you'll not be too surprised to learn that many adventures of "choose
your path" only had a text prompt as your interface.

I would like to see Baldur's Gate run on 41kB memory. :)

Anyhow, as Carl says. It's not difficult to make a fairly good
interactive Lone Wolf PC-game quite a lot better than this. (If you put
some effort into it, it's quite difficult to do worse because you're not
facing the same limitations these developers did.)

Robert Ekblad

Not a problem guys (and girls). Emulation has been my thing ever since
I've been on the internet, and God's always given me a gift to be able to
explain things to people well. I can teach someone who knows nothing about
their computer how to do things that they never knew they could do and it
would make 100% logical to sense to them. It's just my skill if I take my
time to do it slow. I remember trying to tell a girl I liked what emulation
was when she asked what I was talking about with my friend...and I like an
idiot went into a big technical explanation that would have made no sense to
anyone but a comp. geek :)
    But anyhow, I figured it would be my contribution to the list (until I
can maybe get my act together and think of a possible contribution to MC2)
to let everyone else in on it so others could enjoy this hobby. Everyone
might not get into emulation like I have, playing C64, N64, NeoGeo,
PlayStation, NES, Genesis, SNES, TurboGrafx, arcade games, and more,
etc...but they can at least learn that this stuff exists and have an
opportunity to fill their interest in at least one of all these many areas
of emulation - one that actually has Lone Wolf games! Now certainly avid
video game fans will want to get into other areas of emulation interest, so
I suggest http://www.zophar.net But for the non-gamer types I still wanted
them to be able to at least see this stuff for what it is...
    My own personal thanks go out to Robert Ekblad for the link to the ROM
search. I had no clue there were other Lone Wolf games outside of "Mirror of
Death", which was the only one I found at one of the tremendous sites I went
to that I thought had every ROM. Now if only I wouldn't get a "tape load
error" when I try to play those other Lone Wolf games...

None of us ever said the games were good :)  We just said they existed.
I actually would uphold your opinions because I was pretty frustrated myself
at the lack of quality in these games. And it's not because of the system it
was on, or the time it came out. There were many great games back in the
days of C64 and Spectrum, etc...and Apple //. But it's at least an
opportunity here to add to the collection of Lone Wolf items in the world.
Get in on a part of the hype that few people ever were able to back then
because the books were extremely popular but not everything cool in the 80's
got a good game translation. Though it's safe to say that back then,
everything in existence had a video game for it because of how easy it was
to program them...so I don't blame the existence of the games. Just the
authors for disappointing the audience I hoped they would have aimed for.
Even to this day I can still enjoy playing games from back then, just not
these particular games. I just enjoy viewing them for nostalgic purposes...

Jason Leonard

Here again,
 Question 1:  On section 79 of book 2, about the Sommerswerd it says the
following:
"It has the ability to absord any magic that is used against its bearer."
This seems to imply that when enemies use Mindblast and Psi-Surge on you,
it gets
absorded?  Is that correct?

 Question 2:  Can any healing potions or herbs be used during combat?
If you EP was 10 and you had a potion of Laumspur, could you use it
during battle?
Would it take any turns?

 Question 3:  When do you have to eat a meal when you have Hunting?  It
says
"except in areas of wasteland and desert"
but the it says
"no need for a Meal when instructed to eat"
Should you use your own descretion on that issue?

 Comment: For the second MC, I would like to do a list of all the special
items
and unique backpack items.  It would include where they are found and
where they
are used.

Jason B. Smith

Jason B Smith wrote:

> Here again,
>  Question 1:  On section 79 of book 2, about the Sommerswerd it says the
> following:
> "It has the ability to absord any magic that is used against its bearer."
> This seems to imply that when enemies use Mindblast and Psi-Surge on you,
> it gets
> absorded?  Is that correct?

I feel this refers to physical manifestations of magic, such as beams of fire
and the like, that magic users aim at LW.  In book 2, Vonotar shoots a beam
of energy at LW and the Sommerswerd absorbs it.  In my opinion, it definitely
does not refer to Mindblast and other psychic attacks.

> Question 2:  Can any healing potions or herbs be used during combat?
> If you EP was 10 and you had a potion of Laumspur, could you use it
> during battle?

I'm pretty sure the rules explicitly forbid this.

>  Question 3:  When do you have to eat a meal when you have Hunting?  It
> says
> "except in areas of wasteland and desert"
> but the it says
> "no need for a Meal when instructed to eat"
> Should you use your own descretion on that issue?

Since the books instruct you on certain occasions that you may not use
Hunting or Huntmastery in lieu of a Meal, I think that on all other occasions
you're okay using the disciplines.

> Comment: For the second MC, I would like to do a list of all the special
> items
> and unique backpack items.  It would include where they are found and
> where they
> are used.

Good idea.

--
Mike Richey

> > Here again,
> >  Question 1:  On section 79 of book 2, about the Sommerswerd it says the
> > following:
> > "It has the ability to absord any magic that is used against its bearer."
> > This seems to imply that when enemies use Mindblast and Psi-Surge on you,
> > it gets
> > absorded?  Is that correct?
> 
> I feel this refers to physical manifestations of magic, such as beams of fire
> and the like, that magic users aim at LW.  In book 2, Vonotar shoots a beam
> of energy at LW and the Sommerswerd absorbs it.  In my opinion, it definitely
> does not refer to Mindblast and other psychic attacks.

I agree.  It is also interesting to note that several very powerful magic
items can partially overcome the Sommerswerd's defenses.  Examples include
the Deathstaff (which is very lethal) and the Orb of Death (but I suppose
getting hit in the shoulder is better than getting hit in the head :-).

> > Question 2:  Can any healing potions or herbs be used during combat?
> > If you EP was 10 and you had a potion of Laumspur, could you use it
> > during battle?
> 
> I'm pretty sure the rules explicitly forbid this.

I agree.

> >  Question 3:  When do you have to eat a meal when you have Hunting?  It
> > says
> > "except in areas of wasteland and desert"
> > but the it says
> > "no need for a Meal when instructed to eat"
> > Should you use your own descretion on that issue?
> 
> Since the books instruct you on certain occasions that you may not use
> Hunting or Huntmastery in lieu of a Meal, I think that on all other occasions
> you're okay using the disciplines.

Mark J. Laird

>Here again,
> Question 1:  On section 79 of book 2, about the Sommerswerd it says the
>following:
>"It has the ability to absord any magic that is used against its bearer."
>This seems to imply that when enemies use Mindblast and Psi-Surge on you,
>it gets
>absorded?  Is that correct?

No. Psi-energy is not magic, and is not subject to absorption. See section
122 of book 4 for an example, and also have a look at the AD&D psionics
handbook, which makes several points regarding that Dispel Magic doesn't
work on psionics, which seems like a similar situation.

> Question 2:  Can any healing potions or herbs be used during combat?
>If you EP was 10 and you had a potion of Laumspur, could you use it
>during battle?
>Would it take any turns?

It says specifically that you can't use potions while in combat. You can
use them in the combat -section-, but only after finishing the combat
procedure or before making the first roll (there's a few exceptions, such
as when the Helghast attacks you in book 3 section 170), but not during the
combat.

> Question 3:  When do you have to eat a meal when you have Hunting?  It
>says
>"except in areas of wasteland and desert"
>but the it says
>"no need for a Meal when instructed to eat"
>Should you use your own descretion on that issue?

It appears that you are told when you need a meal from your backpack. Books
2, 3, 4, and 5 have a large number of areas (Wildlands and Kalte) where
this is the case. Other books have fewer places where this is the case.

Patrick G. Kalinauskas

This got me thinking-- are there any other backpack items as obscure as the
Baylon's Bough Fungi in Book 11?  You can only get it, I believe, if you
have a middle-range random number (low you die, high you're unharmed, so
only in the middle do you need an antidote), and then you can only use it on
a certain route in the Skardos Mountains in Book 13.

Ben Krefetz

Ahem... Since when became the AD&D psionics handbook reference material
to the world of Magnaumund?

This is an ability of the Sommerswerd which is handled in the
game-books. When it grants this bonus you're told about it in the
adventure text.

I can't think of any place where psychic-energy is countered by the
Sommerswerd so I would have to agree that the Sommerswerd's ability
doesn't help against psychic attacks.

However, the line between psi and magic is almost always vague. The Lone
Wolf books doesn't formally distinguish between the two, i.e. everything
is magic. Just follow the instructions in the relevant paragraphs.

Regards,
Robert Ekblad

On reply to your first question, the Sommerswerd can't actually absorb
Mindblast and Kai-Surge since the origin of this two disciplines is not
magic, but derives from a kind of psionic power of Kai Lords (see interview
with JD at the Kai Monastery, there he says that when he created Magnamund
as a setting for AD&D, he thought the Kai Lords as psionic ranger with power
given them by their god).

Matteo Udina

But Lone Wolf is never the target of such an attack in the game-books.
The creatures attacking Lone Wolf are Helghast, Vordaks, Liganim and
more. (These attacks are never made by Kai.)

Of course nothing prevents these creatures from being psionists as well,
but you don't know this for sure since Psionists and Magics can copy
many abilitues.

Two examples...
The Sommerswerd would absorb/deflect the blast from a magic fireball.
But what if a psionist with Pyrokinesis created a similar Fireball,
would the Sommerswerd counter it?

The Sommerswerd would absorb the magic allowing a Mage to communicate
with him Telepathically, but it wouldn't influence the small ability of
a telepath. In this case we know that Banedon can communicate with Lone
Wolf telepathically (while he's holding the Sommerswerd) so is Banedon a
Psionist as well as a Mage?

The views on Mages vs Psi is a very complicated one and no easy answers
can be given. Just follow the instructions in the game-books... It says
nowhere that the Sommerswerd grants you protection against psychic
attacks in combats, so assume it doesn't do this.

However, there are many places in the game-books when it's made clear
that Lone Wolf mind and psyche was strengthened by the Sommerswerd, and
that the Sommerswerd indeed protects against psionic attacks as well.
Lone Wolf's imprisonment in LW 25 would indicate as much. However, in
that adveture Lone Wolf has entered a trance like state to activate this
power.

The psionic protection for the Sommerswerd is integrated with the +8
Combat Skill you get from possessing the Sommwerswerd. I can think of
several reasons for this:

1. There would be little point in the skill Mindshield (and more
advanced versions of it) if the Sommerswerd granted the same effect.
2. The Sommwerswerd is powerful enough as it is without adding
additional powers to it.
3. Simplicity. The rules become simplier if the Sommerswerd doesn't
interact with psychic attacks and defences.

Regards,
Robert Ekblad

> Two examples...
> The Sommerswerd would absorb/deflect the blast from a magic fireball.
> But what if a psionist with Pyrokinesis created a similar Fireball,
> would the Sommerswerd counter it?

Doubtful.  Psionics is, as well as I can remember, and innate trait given
to few people. (Sound familiar?)  It is not magic, at least not according
to AD&D.  On Magnamund it might be different...

> 
> The Sommerswerd would absorb the magic allowing a Mage to communicate
> with him Telepathically, but it wouldn't influence the small ability of
> a telepath. In this case we know that Banedon can communicate with Lone
> Wolf telepathically (while he's holding the Sommerswerd) so is Banedon a
> Psionist as well as a Mage?

Again, the Sommerswerd absorbs all magic used against it's bearer.
Whether this is good or evil is not specified, but I think it should read
that it absorbs all harmful magic...Banedon is probably the Magnamundian
equivalent of a psionicist as well...

> The views on Mages vs Psi is a very complicated one and no easy answers
> can be given. Just follow the instructions in the game-books... It says
> nowhere that the Sommerswerd grants you protection against psychic
> attacks in combats, so assume it doesn't do this.

This should be amazingly clear anyway...

Rick Grotzky

Actually, in LW15, there is a fireball a nadziran (i think) created with
psionics and it gives you the option of using kai-screen or the sommerswerd
to deflect it. So I guess it would absorb/reflect psionics like the
sommerswerd does.

Also, ever notice how sometimes the sommerswerd absorbs magic but at other
times it reflects it?

Finally, magic/psionics seems to be much different in Magnamund then in
ad&d, because in Lone Wolf spells seem to be released by thought, instead
of through gestures, words and material components, and i dont think that
the people of Magnamund need to memorize spells.

Sam Bowker

The name is Ryan, and I'm new to the mailing list. If any of you geniuses
out there can offer help, I'd be tickled pink. I want to know any/as
many clues as possible as to the secrets/answers within "The Tasks of
Tantalon", as I've had the book for about 6 years and are still stumped.
Please help, I will worship your feet for it.

At your service (however you may be),
Ryan

Hi,

Ahh, the Tasks of Tantalon. I've had this book for... 12? 13? years (since
its publication), and am as stumped as you as to the overall purpose of the
book. My guess is that there is none. The book offer a lot of puzzles, and
works well as just that. The book also seem to hint of a "greater" goal; an
overall purpose of solving these puzzles if you will, but I've never figured
out just what this could be. Again, I think these references are just
atmospheric ones, to give the tasks presented an extra flair to them. For
that purpose I'd say it succeeds, but if there is some meaning in it I'm
afraid it will eternally be lost to me.

Cheers,
Svein

From memory, the answer to each riddle is a number. You have to study the
pictures to work out what that number is. Once you have all the numbers,
you need to check these off against something at the end of the book, but I
cannot remember how this is done. If all your answers are there, then you
know you got it all right. If noone else on the list knows the answer, I'll
check my copy tonight. The book's so vague as to what you need to do,
though, that I doubt many people get past working out the objective.

"Casket of Souls" is similar. The basic quest is fairly easy to work out-
at least in terms of what you have to do, but you need to be a genius to
solve the thing. :)

Nathan Page

Let's face it, everyone is stumped by Tasks of Tantalon. Although the vast
majority of the puzzles themselves aren't that difficult (although the demon
fish doesn't really make sense so you're never quite sure what you're meant
to do) the final solution is the problem, especially as the runetrail is
never properly explained. There are however two clues given - "The hunter
with no bow" and "That which will fade with years". One picture that I
reached by adding up all my answers was that of Cassandra locked inside the
tower at Cumbleside which, in my opinion, is the correct solution to the
book. It has the hawk (hunter with no bow), the beautiful woman (that which
will fade with years) and also has what appears to be Tantalon gazing at you
from behind the left-hand guard. I'm still not certain that this is the
answer but it's the closest and most logical way that I've ever come to
solving the thing.
-Aardvark of Doom

Bow down before me, for I have the complete solution to Tasks of Tantalon.
It suddenly struck me just after my last message to the list and I've just
been working it out. So, here we go:

1) Pull the lever to 5 ( seemingly a favourite puzzle of Steve's as he also
uses it in Khare)
2) Buy worms for 2 copper pieces as these are least popular with other fish.
3) There are 8 Hag-Witches in the street scene itself (Including the hand
with the bird but not including the 1-toothed person which is very similar
to her.
4) Turn off valves 3, 4 and 7 (Giving a total of 14)
5) There are only 3 genuine gold pieces in the dragon's horde (those stamped
with a king's head)
6) The frogs will take 12 jumps
7) The entrance has 2 stars
8) There are no stones set in the ring which is hidden on the test-tube rack
9) Tag is hiding at the signpost at 2, 2 (hence answer 4)
10) There are no trees next to the tallest on the moor
11) Key number 15 (from puzzle 1) unlocks the door
12) Statue 13 is Sir Duke

If you add up all the numbers you get 78. Okay, so you could assume that you
are looking for rune 78, which only appears on the map which has the hawk
and it would fade with age so this could be the answer. However, I
personally believe that as this total is the same as the total of the runes
on the back cover of the book, which also has the hawk and the crown and
will of course fade with age. The third alternative is to, assuming that the
map is the start of the trail, add up the runes around it, giving 180. Now
add 1, 8 and 0, giving 9 which is the number of stones set in the crown.

Okay, I know that that's three possible solutions but I'm pretty certain
that one of them will be right, choose your own.
If you add up all the answers you get ???

What does everyone think the reason is for gamebooks and RPGs being so
popular in the 80's, and then suddenly dying out? Probably the main one
is that computers were a bit crap then so they had to use something else
to have a laugh, but this doesn't explain the popularity of fantasy in
general. My theory is that around this time the threat of nuclear war
hung around the corner, and people wanted a world they could escape to,
where there was no Brezhnev (sp?) and Reagan. Also the invasion of the
Falklands didn't really help.
-- 
Luke Goaman-Dodson(not to confused with Luke Skywalker, lukewarm, or St Luke) aka Moon Hawk (not to be confused with the Moonwalk, Hawkmoon, or Spoon Fork, which, if spoken in an English accent, rhymes with "Moon Hawk")

I think that this explication is a little bit inadequate. First of all, in
the 80's a nuclear war wasn't more likely that during, say, the 60's or
70's. There are always "threats" (wars, near east, kosovo, political
tension with china, pollution, cancer, aids), but the fantasy popularity is
not so affected by them. Also, probably the Falklands were worrying people
in England and Argentina, but actually in Italy (and I suppose everywhere
in the world) nobody was caring about it.

Last but not least, I think that the loss of popularity of gamebooks and
RPG is not the same everywhere. I think that in Italy the number of
roleplayers has increased since eighties (but it never reached american
popularity). For example, in Italy Lone Wolf is still in print, and is
conquering new generations of players. The Italian publishers are even
republishing it, with new covers, etc. etc.

Lupo

The problem is just Americans. Look how Lone Wolf, probably the sole
surviving and still ongoing (til Book 28 that is) gamebook, has carried
itself since Berkley stopped at Book 20. It's just the American public...too
many of them jump on the bandwagons easily without any regard to their
previous interests. It's the same reason nobody listens to glam rock
anymore - grunge came along and people hopped on that bandwagon and forgot
about glam rock because they had 10 years of it and that was enough for
them. Well, role players had 10 years of gamebooks here in America and when
MTG came out, they finally had something to give them a break for something
new. And if you don't believe me that ccg's like MTG were what killed
gamebooks - you're fooling yourself. CCG's almost killed off regular
pencil/paper books but those have survived because they always have their
own unique elements that no role player loses interest in. Just like rock n
roll music always has one basic element that never loses its fans, it's just
that the styles of how the image and music is implemented changes over the
decades. Gamebooks didn't have this though, they were too much a
concatenation of other things and were entertaining but only for so long
because they basically were just c-y-o-a books with D&D implemented in them
in a more portable fashion (the tables/charts for damage and combat ratios
and such things like this, to avoid actually having many seperate things
determine something, since a book in itself is a portable item). I loved
them and still read them but not everyone is the same, American audiences
are by majority very weird with this bandwagon phenomena. It's like they
don't want to be caught in the dust seeming like they are clinging on to the
past...can't blame them.
    I just wish I knew why interactive stuff like Captain Power never even
has made it anywhere in the market other than Captain Power itself, which
was stopped because of complaints about the toys and the interactive
feature...but it's been 10 years, I would think by now someone would have
some plans to bring that kinda stuff in mainstream, what was so bad about
the idea that it never made it? I think it was just ahead of itself...people
complained that it was ludicrous to make a series like that where you "had"
to have the toys to follow along with the story if you want to have any fun?
Though this is a ludicrous statement, as the toys only enhnaced the
experience for kids, because the series itself was more aimed at adults in
the things it covered and the way it was done (most of the people who now
write Babylon 5 worked on Captain Power). The only thing you really NEEDED
the toys for, were the interactive videos that came with the toys!!! These
had pretty much no story line at all, and were training videos that had
breaks at various intervals but other than that were nothing but the
interactive parts. People...make no sense!
But now I've gone really off subject...

Jason Leonard

I think you are being a bit harsh!  There is no reason to blame all of
american society for the declination of interest in gamebooks.  Times
changs, and so do fads.  Think also about clothing tastes and changes, as
well as the difference in television and movies today as opposed to ten
years ago.  It is right and natural that things digress and evolve.  It's
called evolution.

I don't think that CCG's have killed regular old RPG's.  If anything has
it is the fact that more and more people are getting into the whole
video-RPG experience.  Why do you think the Playstation is the hottest
commodity in consumer entertainment?  Final Fantasy VII grossed more money
that the movie G.I. Jane in the same span of time.  Other games like
Legend of Zelda, Baldur's Gate, Heroes of Might and Magic and countless
other V-RPG's have brainwashed people into letting someone else paint the
picture for them. While a majority of these games are great on their own,
none of them can really capture that feeling of having a DM (or any
neutral party i.e gamebook author) describe a battle scene, or the stench
of the sewer water.  I think RPG's are hotter now that ever, but the
medium has just changed because the technology to do so was within reach.

Rick Grotzky

It's exactly my point - times and fads do change and that's why
gamebooks aren't as popular : but it seems to me like the fads change less
frequently in other countries, which ties in with my initial argument and
the initial statement of how people in Italy are with the Lone Wolf
gamebooks...they hold on to the fads a bit better and with a bit more
respect than Americans do..
    Yes I forgot to mention video games as well for killing off gamebooks.
Now instead of reading everything, you could see it all on a screen. I love
video game RPG's and am addicted like many. Leaves less to the imagination
but still takes a creative mind to enjoy...and has it's own positives with
the extra degree of things about the character you can control other than
the simple things you control in gamebooks. Plus storylines are more
intricate and detailed and alot of times very emotional...
    Yeah, there will always be the hardcore pen/paper fanatics though
because some elements of it just can't be beaten...you control EVERYTHING,
how your character eats sleeps and breathes and talks...it's the ideal type
of situation...
    To clarify what you said against me, I said ccg's were part of what
killed gamebooks because the technology and trends changed. I did not say
they killed regular RPG's. So we are actually in agreement there. I
mentioned regular RPG's were still strong because of the elements that they
have that just will always be classic...they started it, after all!

Jason Leonard

>     The problem is just Americans.

Well, far be it from me to speak for 250+ million people, but here goes.

> Look how Lone Wolf, probably the sole
> surviving and still ongoing (til Book 28 that is) gamebook, has carried
> itself since Berkley stopped at Book 20. It's just the American public...too
> many of them jump on the bandwagons easily without any regard to their
> previous interests.

As I've said before, the Lone Wolf series has the built-in problem of
being marketed to children.  This isn't really a problem for, say, the
first twelve volumes.  But later, two things happen.  First, the existing
readers, perhaps reluctantly, grow up; it becomes much less appealing to
support a series still targeted at children.  Second, we have a new
generation of kids who may be turned off by a series that's already ten or
twenty (or twenty-eight) volumes old.  Children especially are drawn more
toward "new" things.

For example, as a child, "Voltron" was one of my absolute favorite TV
shows.  While in college, I found out that it was being rerun on Cartoon
Network.  So I sat down to watch, eager to relive this wonder from my
childhood.  When it was over, I thought, "I actually used to WATCH this?!"
Of course, most kids nowadays have never heard of "Voltron"; their eyes
are glued to the newest super-slick, brightly-colored heroes du jour.  And
chances are, one day they'll look back much the same way.

I believe your "bandwagon" argument is certainly not without merit, when
it comes to kids.  But I doubt that most adults simply "forget" their
previous hobbies; there are simply things they consider more worthy of
their time.

And is it the American public's fault that Lone Wolf is fading away in his
home country?

> It's the same reason nobody listens to glam rock
> anymore - grunge came along and people hopped on that bandwagon and forgot
> about glam rock because they had 10 years of it and that was enough for
> them.

This I don't buy.  If it takes more than ten years to "outgrow" something,
I think it takes a little more than bandwagon mentality to change.
Further, gamebooks have a MUCH narrower target demographic than rock
music.

> Well, role players had 10 years of gamebooks here in America and when
> MTG came out, they finally had something to give them a break for something
> new. And if you don't believe me that ccg's like MTG were what killed
> gamebooks - you're fooling yourself. CCG's almost killed off regular
> pencil/paper books but those have survived because they always have their
> own unique elements that no role player loses interest in.

Wait a second, dude; there's one HUGE difference here.  With very, very
few exceptions, gamebooks are meant for one person, while CCG's, or any
pen-and-paper RPG for that matter, are meant for groups of people.  They
are much more flexible (usually), and much more sociable.  I've never
gotten into CCG's myself, but my interest in gamebooks took a nosedive
when I got into D&D; not only did it also provide hours of adventure, it
was something I could much more easily share with friends.  Do I fight the
dragon, or run away?  Maybe I'd rather tell it some jokes.  You can't get
that in a gamebook (unless, of course, the author gives you the option).

There are only so many paths a gamebook can take.  But when more than
person is involved, the possiblities are virtually infinite.

You can see the same thing happening these days with computer games.
Multi-player is the big thing now.

>     I just wish I knew why interactive stuff like Captain Power never even
> has made it anywhere in the market other than Captain Power itself...

Well, I've never heard of Captain Power, so I won't comment on that.
Perhaps you could enlighten us?

Rob Hastings

I agree, CCGs (aka TCGs) have even outdone RPGs. Pokemon is starting to
get over here. In the UK, even mentioning D&D is like... something
really rare. It's not the same for M:TG. WotC did in a few years what
TSR did in a decade. This led to the great take-over. 

P.S. I have never heard of Captain Power. What is he (or it)?

Luke Goaman-Dodson

I cant say much, since RPG's are still very popular in South Africa, but I agree, they have taken
over the indomitable gamebooks.  We still have the origonal D&D here, so I cant say much for AD&D
though.

The only problem in South Africa is no one will send the damn books here and when we do eventually
get them there is a frantic scrabble and the losers have to pay vast sums of money to import them

PS. What the hell is Pokemon?

Sherillee Johnson

<BTW, what is Pokemon?>

Believe me, you don't want to know.  It's a video game that got really 
popular in Japan a couple of years ago (by the name of Pocket Monsters).  It 
basically transformed into another weird Japanese fad (the last one being 
virtual pets) that spawned endless merchandising - clothing, a CCG, an RPG, 
and endless other games.

In 1998, for some godforsaken reason Nintendo decided to bring it over to the 
US, and, for some reason, changed its name to Pokémon (most people omit the 
accent mark).  It's extremely popular among the local 8-12 year olds, the 
kind who bring their Game Boys to school, watch the lame cartoon show every 
day, play the card game, and generally have no life.  Some of the games spun 
off of Pokemon are Pokemon Pinball, a virtual pet, Pokemon Snap, and other 
stuff.

If you really want to know more, you can go to http://www.pokemon.com

WARNING: above site contains extreme cuteness and appeal to 3rd graders.  
Enter at your own risk!

King Wumpus

Hmm...

I tend to agree with the 'fad' theory, however, there is also something else to
consider.
For younger readers, a new book club was introduced in school.  Most of the
Americans on this list (sorry) remember it: the Troll Book Club.  A huge part of
the Troll Book Club's sales were based on the 'Choose-your-Own-Adventure' series,
which gave kids the choice (somewhat limited) in their adventure (this was how I
personally got hooked).  Since kids don't usually have a choice in what they get
to do, and since Nintendo was still expensive enough to be on most Christmas wish
lists, this was a good alternative.

Not only that, but the entire Fantasy genre had a boost with the proliferation of
fantasy-based movies like "The Neverending Story", "Krull", "Excalibur",
"Dragonslayer", "Labirynth", "Legend", etc.  These were quality films that fired
imaginations and brought about the 'fad'.

Carl Reyes

Hey now! Pokemon can be quite fun and entertaining, if you're secure in your
manhood (sexually and maturity wise). It may be targeted at kids but can be
interesting for anyone if they take the time. I love playing the games when
I can, it's so simple but yet not so simple that it gets boring after too
long. And you are looking at monsters made from animals and things,
basically.

To the person who doesn't know what Pokemon is, the idea is that you can
find/catch/raise small little creatures, and train them to fight or keep
them as pets. These creatures are usually similar to animals but made to be
a bit more monster like and at the same, cute for young kids and for a
female audience. It's popularity spawned many different things, as mentioned
before. And the animated movie in Japan is like the 4th movie of all time
over there. The idea is basically turning Mail Order Monsters into an RPG,
though. Or making an RPG of Battle Beasts and having a wider range of things
outside of the elements. The RPG of course is in the form of a video
game...though I'm sure someone's tried to pen/pencil it in their own homes.

For example, there are different types of Pokemon that have certain
strengths and weaknesses against others. There are grass, electric, water,
fire, psychic, poison, rock, and many more. The idea behind the games and
even the show is that you're trying to collect all of them, over 150. And it
became enough of an obsession for young Japanese kids to try to collect them
all, that they brought it here. Because the only way you can catch them all
are to own the different versions of the game. Each version is the same but
limits which Pokemon you can actually catch. So not only is it a collectible
type thing but also a huge money maker.

Anyhow, I will say I'm not a Pokemon fanatic but I have found my own
interest in Pokemon, if small. I got tired of the RPG because it seems to go
on forever and you have to spend too much time going up levels. Which can be
fun if you've got the resources to go up levels pretty fast. But can be
boring also. I don't have time to watch the show, and even if I did it's
sooooo aimed at children that at age 21, I would be enjoying it because I'm
familiar with the game. Now any of the toys related to it are kinda neat.
Just think of a phenomena that has the same basis as beanie babies but they
aren't bean bag toys or animals. And they aren't replicas of real animals,
they are made up, original monsters that resemble animals in some ways, but
in other ways don't. It appeals much more to men and women both than beanie
babies, because of the variety of originality and the sources the ones are
derived from.

Well that's enough of the Pokemon lesson for now...check it out for yourself
and give your own opinions. I could see how if I were younger I would be
obsessed with it. I just call my interest in it though just that...an
interest. Nothing that I would go out of my way to pursue but I don't mind
indulging in it from time to time...

Jason Leonard

Hi Fighting Fantasy fans,

Has anyone else had a look in the computer games magazine 'Total Control'? I
glanced through it in a shop, and under the section 'Fads' (things that were
once popular but no longer are) there was a section on Fighting Fantasy,
complete with scans from some of the FF sites on the net (one image I recall
was the huge collage from, I think, Alex Eddy's site)!

From what I can remember, the article stated that the books were still
selling well in Eastern Europe, and mentioned all the usual stuff. For each
'fad' there was a link to an appropriate web site, in this case, being
'FightingFantasy.com'.

Fighting Fantasy...not in print, but not forgotten!

Interesting huh?

Ta.

Richard Stanton

> On 21 September 1957, King Haakon VII of Norway died.

Speaking of wierd Lone Wolf names popping up in the middle of mowhere...

I was in the local supermarket the other day and noticed a type of health
drink called "Elix".  Coincidence?

Also, whilst watching reruns of "Laverne and Shirley" I noticed the
character Lenny had a jacket on that had "Lone Wolf" scrawled across the
back...again, maybe Joe Dever used this reference for the name of his
character...(yeah right!)

Rick Grotzky

Ah, but all these references that have been made so far refer to simply
the idea of a single, solitary (or, lone) wolf on it's own, away from it's
pack but surviving nonetheless through it's lonely struggles. An idea that
artists painted about and people dreamed about centuries ago. It's the
mysticism behind this idea of a person of this type...that was most
certainly Dever's influence and also the influence of all the other
references. It's the image portrayed by an animal so tough as a wolf to
actually be by himself and able to survive...that has influenced all these
people...no matter what show or movie. Dever did not draw his influence from
any particular movie or show, and to say so would be hosh posh. Even the
name itself as a character in stories or comics or legends has been used in
many occasions, dating back to native american culture hundreds of years
ago...and in modern times has just kinda become an ideal image for the
"macho" type of person, especially in past decades. Hence the jackets with
it on the back...these people were trying to make a statement about
themselves by comparing themselves to this same image. Joe Dever was trying
to make a statement about his character by comparing him to this image. Lone
Wolf being the last of the Kai, after all, on his own trying to keep his
race alive and fight for them...and look what he accomplishes and can
accomplish! It's very fitting and very smart on Dever's part, even if a bit
unoriginal...we know the rest of Dever's world has enough originality that
we can't discredit his abilities...even if many of his ideas are spawned
from other ideas, they are still implemented in a totally unique way.

Jason Leonard

Yeah, I think we can all appreciate Dever's choice of names (at this
point, could you even imagine calling it somethine else?).

I just thought it was kind of cool to see/hear the term show up in pop
culture every once in a while; it's really not that common nowadays (at
least in my experience).

Rob Hastings

Just adding a bit of pointless information to the list. I've forgotten who
it was now who mentioned about FF books in the UK being green spines (orange
for sorcery, blue for advanced and black or a sort of purple-blue for
novels). Well, the French always used to have white spines with a little
picture on to represent what sort of gamebook it was (sword and shield for
standard FF, sorcerer's hand for Sorcery, wolf for Lone Wolf - I'm sure you
get the idea).

Okay, it was pointless information, but there may be someone out there sad
enough to care, I know I do.
-Aardvark of Doom (Chris)

There was a time in the UK when FF books had unique colours for their
spines
like brown for warlock,blue for deathtrap dungeon,  green for city of
thieves etc. T
he sorcery books had a cover image that wrapped around the spine to the
back 
for the first 2 books in the series. A shame really, since when they all
become green
and orange, the art detail around the spine and back of the books was lost.

sound like a nostalgic old man.....

-Sean Lord

If they had used the original system with different colours on the sleeves
for each book, it would have been interesting to see what variatuions they
would had come up with on the later books - they probably never thought of
the fact that the series would continue up to #59 back then. :-)   It
probably became neccesary to cut back on the colourscheme eventually.

A shame, yes, as it sounds like a very nice touch. (A bigger shame that I
never saw any of those books. My first were those with the green borders.)

Cheers,
Svein

Warlock of Firetop Mountain also had a cover image that wrapped around-
this version of the cover was before the greeny brown unique colour that
you refer to above. I prefer the wraparound covers as well (probably since
these are the ones I had as a child. :)

Cheerio,

Nathan Page

>Well, the French always used to have white spines with a little picture
>on to represent what sort of gamebook it was (sword and shield for
>standard FF, sorcerer's hand for Sorcery, wolf for Lone Wolf - I'm sure
>youget the idea).

They released the LoneWolf books using the same graphic "system" as the FF
books? I thought they were competitors.

Or did one company franchise all gamebooks for France, and made a common
system for them all to sell them under?

Cheers,
Svein

Yeah, ive got 6 books with the coloured spines, and they were all printed in 
Australia, and had a coloured star in the corner, which was the same as the 
spine.

ff#1 is brown
ff#3 is light red
ff#4 is light blue
ff#5 is green
ff#6 is dark blue
ff#7 is red

I also think that ff# 2 was red also. Also, I've seen FF #1 and #2 avaliable 
in hard cover with the coloured spine. FF #3 might also, but im not sure.

By the way, what colour is the spine Fighting Fantasy? My copy is bright 
orange. Is this the same with everyone, or part of the original colour 
scheme?

Lachlan Austin

>By the way, what colour is the spine Fighting Fantasy? My copy is bright
>orange. Is this the same with everyone, or part of the original colour
>scheme?

I have two copies, different printings, same orange colour, so I believe
this is the same for everyone. I don't think there were any thoughts to have
the FF RPG system in orange as such, as my copies of Riddling Reaver (I have
three of these - again different printings) are all in the usual green.

Cheers,
Svein

>By the way, what colour is the spine Fighting Fantasy? My copy is bright 
>orange. Is this the same with everyone, or part of the original colour 
>scheme?

Early printings were orange, later printings were green. 

Nathan Page

In answer to Sveing, Yes, as far as I'm aware all the major game-books (and
a few obscure French ones) were not bought but exclusively published by
Folio Junior. They were when I used to get them anyway. Perhaps earlier they
had been unsuccessful separately and Folio eventually bought the rights to
them.

Chris

I've just been flicking through Fighting Fantasy and Riddling Reaver seeing
if there was anything in the rules that I could cannibalise(Sp) for my PBEM
game (and as I thought, there wasn't), when I came across a few passages
which, call me suspicious minded if you want, seem to me to be sinister. Not
perverse, although that could be read into them as well, just sinister.

"This time you won't be using the book. I am sitting in the room with you."
Why didn't he just add the sinister "Wuhuhuhaah" laugh and be done with it?
"Don't look behind you, but you know that dark corner that you always used
to think was haunted? That's where I am." I'm sorry, but if that's the sort
of twisted story-telling that we grew up on it's a surprise that we have any
sanity left at all. Still, it's probably just me that sees it as sinister. I
usually is.

Chris

Hello does any one no if night dragon FF 52 ever had a map in it.I have two 
copys of Creature of havoc FF 24 one with a map and the ather copy with out 
a map.It seems that the the newer copys with the dragon on the front cover 
are missing the maps.

Greg Szozda

One of the many things that the designers of FF books never seemed sure of
was whether or not to put maps in. they started putting maps inside the
covers of those in the 20s, then stopped for a while. Then released more
(including some previously-published ones which had never had maps inside
the covers) with maps, then gave up on the idea. To my knowledge the last
first-edition (in the UK at least) with a map inside the cover was Tower of
Destruction. Later books may have had maps inside the covers in second
editions and of course a few have the black and white maps which I never
thought were as good. I may of course be proved wrong but I'm pretty sure
that Night Dragon never contained a map.

Anyway, books " with the dragon on the front cover"? That is THE dragon,
Titan. The same dragon shown attacking Carsepolis on the front of Titan
(even though in actuality the two only bear a passing resemblence). You
could even buy ornaments of him at one time. I have the miniature one on the
FF plaque but could never really afford the £300 that the two-foot high one
cost shortly before the series was withdrawn. Does anyone have a full list
of these ornaments by the way? They were released by the British company
Clare Craft (now more famous for its Discworld ornaments) in the early to
mid '90s. I have the Firetop Mountain Minotaur, the shapechanger and the
plaque and can remember Zagor, Shareella and Gillibran and have a vague
memory of Yaztromo. If anyone does have the list I'd be interested in seeing
it. Also if anyone wants to sell me any that I haven't got, I'd be willing
to sell my grandmother to get my hands on them. Perhaps we can do a straight
swap. I get the 10" model of Zagor, you get an old, dead woman. Can't say
fairer than that.

Chris

You mean... there are *more* Fighting Fantasy items I had never heard
about? <sigh>. Just when I thought I had a remote chance of finishing the
collection. :)

Oh well...

Nathan Page

Ah, how well I know that feeling. Getting all the FF books, Sorcery! etc and
finding out about Clash of the Princes. Getting those and finding out about
Tasks of Tantalon. Getting that and finding out about Casket of Souls. We
should all be used to it by now. No matter how many FF-related products you
buy there are always some that crop up. The original cigarette packet that
Steve and Ian scrawled the idea of FF 1 on, the celebratory 10th aniversary
beer-mat. (They don't exist, I made them up, don't panic, they're just
examples of things that have lain unknown for years, waiting until you think
you've completed your collection before emerging).

Chris

Just to veryify a few things...

Yes, the last first-print colour map on the inside cover appeared in FF #46
Tower of Destruction. Any books following that required a map had a black
and white drawing somewhere within the rules-background section. Later
printings of FF books 1-46 that previously had colour maps didn't have them
at all - Kind of pointless especially when maps and/or gamecharts are
required (like #32, #33 etc). On a different note, Lone Wolf managed to
survive having the colour maps deleted until 1997 (book #25 - Trail of the
Wolf). The publishers also jacked up the price at that time too. Hardly
worth it, paying $1 or so more, for less quality! Oh well, what can we do.....

Tristan Taylor

Hello, everybody,

Here's something I've always wondered about. I noticed that the colour
pictures on the inside of the FF books was nixed a few years ago, just
like everyone else (along with the gold foil print of "Steve Jackson and
Ian Livingstone Present"... what can I say, I'm a sucker for the shiny).
As a consequence, I've noticed that a few reprints of old books have
left out the map that was referred to in the text. But in one book, #41,
Master of Chaos, it says that there was a map of the city on the inside
cover, but there were just the normal colour pics of other FF covers.
Does anyone know what the deal with that is? Happy trails,

Boy, is my face red. The foil print was usually bronze, not gold. The
gold was just on Sorcery!, Return to Firetop Mountain and Armies of
Death (and I think it might have been on the other Deathtrap Dungeon
related books... not sure on that one). Glad I caught that before
someone else did! :)

Ben Pearson

Ok, can anyone add to this list?

59 standard gamebooks
Clash of the Princes (two volumes in slipcase)
Fighting Fantasy RPG
The Riddling Reaver
Sorcery! (Four separate volumes, and spellbook, #1 & Spellbook also in
slipcase pack)
Dungeoneer
Blacksand
Allansia
Out of the Pit (large size & Pocket Book)
Titan (large size & Pocket Book)
Tasks of Tantalon (softback & hardback)
Casket of Souls (softback & hardback)
Trolltooth Wars
Shadowmaster
Demonstealer
10th Anniversary Yearbook
Poster Book
Warlock of Firetop Mountain Boardgame
Legend of Zagor Boardgame (can anyone confirm this?)
The Zagor Chronicles (4 paperbacks)
The Adventures of Goldhawk (4 paperbacks)
Warlock magazine (13 English copies, lots more Japanese ones)
Citadel Miniatures (monsters and heroes)
Jigsaw Puzzles (can anyone confirm these?)
Ornaments from Clare Craft (Titan Dragon, Minotaur, Zagor, Shareella,
Gillibran, Yaztromo)
Spectrum games: Warlock of FM, Seas of Blood, Temple of Terror
PC Game: Deathtrap Dungeon (including different edition of book & cards set)
Steve Jackson's Battlecards (two sets- US & UK)

I've probably missed some things, so if anyone can fill in any gaps... :)

Cheerio,

Nathan Page

hi
regarding the list.there was also a rebel planet zx spectrum game
neil taylor

Yeah, there is some extra stuff. I remember once going into a bookshop and 
seeing a Fighting Fantasy cardboard bookshelf. It said "Fighting Fantasy" 
across the top and I think, had the image of the chair in Deathtrap Dungeon 
where you get the Doppelganger potion from. But when I went back to the shop 
a week later it was gone, so we'll never know.

Also, I can confirm the Legend of Zagor Boardgame, as there was an ad for it 
in the back of my copy of FF#54, which had an image of the board. It was 
made of three pieces joined by bridges(although it may contain more, as they 
look a little small), and the third looks like the entrance to Zagor's room, 
with a huge dragon skull over the entrance. I'll try to get a scanned image 
of it. It includes a 40k memory chip which controls the action, and Zagor's 
voice calls out commands, controlling combat between players.It also says if 
you have trouble locating the game, call Parker Consumer Services Department 
on 0530 510000. It's available only in U.K and Eire.

Also add to your list, Ian Livingstone's Dicing With Dragons.
Deathtrap Dungeon also comes with a Bestiary, written by Jamie Thompson, and 
illustrated by Martin McKenna.
Deathtrap Dungeon II is supposedly in production, so add that to the list 
soon also.
Cover art of Dungeoneer and Revenge of the Vampire(i think) are also 
available individually. And wasn't there an FF PosterBook containing various 
cover art?

That's all I can think of for now.

Lachlan Austin

I can confirm one of the jigsaw-puzzles. I have the box & puzzle for
"Warlock of FM" (original art), 500 pieces. The only one I ever saw, but it
has ruled the wall of my hobbyroom ever since!

In addittion to the puzzle, I can also add that I have a few "Warlock of FM"
giant posters (new art). These have been commonly available in all of Norway
with a bunch of other "fantasy"-inspired posters as well as rock posters. In
fact I believe they are still possible to find without too much trouble.

Svein

Yeah, there are a few items that you've missed out. For a start the Clare
Craft figurines were a lot more numerous but I just can't remember them all
(and I got on to Clare Craft this afternoon and they told me that they went
out of production soon after release in '95 so even then they were *very*
rare.
I have vague memories of a City of Thieves boardgame where you had to wander
about Blacksand drawing cards to decide your quest and enemies etc.
Chris Achilleos had a range of his artwork both on trading cards and
posters - I've the covers of #36 and 14 on posters and #14 on a card. What
other trading-cards exist I don't know but I also got #12 in one set or
another.
Also there are the great rareties of the cardboard shop displays (Steve and
Ian standing in front of creepy doors/monsters etc.)

Well, that's all I can think of that you haven't got on your list. I'll get
back to you if I think of anything else.

Oh yeah, can anyone tell me why in the Chronicles of Zagor the wizard was a
woman while it Legend of Zagor (book and game) it was a man? It doesn't
really make that much sense. I could understand if it was a woman in both
but not the change.

Chris

The Legend of Zagor boardgame was never popular, possibly due to it's price
being double that of similar games avaliable or possibly just because it
wasn't really all that good,  so it's a rarety.
And you seriously expect we lucky few who have it to sell it just like that?
Hah! Make an offer just so we can mock it.

Chris

Hi,

   I know of two Jigsaw puzzles that was sold in the U.K. Warlock firetop
mountain and The forest of doom. Both are 500 pieces and I was lucky enough
to find the FOD at a car boot sale so its worth keeping an eye out.

Martin

hello all. i was just thumbing around the very few Lone Wolf websites for 
some information, and i found this list so i decided to join. just to tell 
you all a little bit about myself, i am 16 years old and i live in Columbia, 
MD. i've read Lone Wolf books since i was in about 3rd grade, my friend 
showed them to me and i thought they were the coolest thing. he eventually 
gave me his collection (about 6-8 books) and i read them sporatically, but i 
didn't actually play them seriously (not engaging in combat, having items and 
equipment i didn't actually get etc. etc.) i got bored the other day and i 
decided to pick up "Flight From the Dark" and see just what it was like to 
play the book seriously, and it was great. i'm now on book 6 "The Kingdoms of 
Terror" and i'm looking to patch up the holes in my collection. thumbing 
around used bookstores i filled in all but books 7, 17 and 20. i ordered 
"Castle Death"  "The Deathlord of Ixia" and "Wolfs Bane" yesterday and i 
should be on my way if i can locate book 20 (which i know i owned at one 
point but i lost it.. ><). what i am interested in now is acquiring the 
british books past 20 and the magnamund companion. i contacted 
bookstore.co.uk and they have "Voyage of the Moonstone" "Vampirium" and 
"Hunger of Sejanoz" and i will soon be ordering them ($8.50 each but hey, i'm 
a serious collector..) i just wanted to know if any of the helpful people ont 
his list could point me in the direction of these books. well, i hope to hear 
from anyone soon about this. thanks in advance for any help you all can give 
me...

--Thanks
Chainsaw YaK

Here's a question for the list - how many published FF/AFF RPG adventures
exist and where were they published?

This does NOT count solo adventures. Only adventures where there is
expected to be a GM for FF or AFF?

Michael Taylor

As far as I'm aware there were only 6 FF adventures that required a GM:

Fighting Fantasy
The Riddling Reaver
Dungeoneer
Blacksand
Allansia
Maelstrom

The first five are set on Titan (well, you're never really told where FF is
set so you just have to assume its Titan), while the sixth, published in
about 1986 and the first to bear the blue spine and name of AFF, was set in
16th century England, where players played a variety of characters
travelling the long and dangerous road from St Albans to London. Also, even
though you did specify games needing a GM, there's also Clash of the Princes
which is a game for two players. I actually have the sneaking suspicion that
there were more multi-player FF adventures but none spring to mind at the
moment.

Chris

There was also a few in Warlock magazine, the first one I can remember being 
by Steve Jackson and called Search for the Mungies Gold, set in the 
mountains of Mauristatia. It was a cross between a FF RPG adventure and a 
boardgame

cheers

andy wright

The first five are set on Titan (well, you're never really told where FF is
set so you just have to assume its Titan), while the sixth, published in
about 1986 and the first to bear the blue spine and name of AFF, was set in
16th century England, where players played a variety of characters
travelling the long and dangerous road from St Albans to London.<

What is "Maelstrom"? Where was this published?

There's also "Beyond the Shadow of a Dream" adventure by Ian Marsh in White
Dwarf #61

Are there any in Warlock issues?

Michael Taylor

My copy (which will be up on EBay tomorrow...) is published in 1984 (1st 
print) by Puffin books.  It is written by Alexander Scott.
There is NO reference on my copy ANYWHERE about Advanced Fighting Fanatasy
or Steve Jackson or Ian Livingstone.  It is marketed as an "Adventure 
Gamebooks" which would put it in the same family as the Cretan Chronicles 
(also Adventure Gamebooks).

From what I've seen the combat system bears no resemblence to Fighting 
Fanatasy either.

Andrew Tumber

Okay then, I bow to your superior knowledge on Maelstrom, I don't have it
myself but have seen one copy which is clearly labelled as being AFF,
probably just Penguin trying to cash in on the success of one series by
linking it with their less successful adventures.

Chris

G'day All,

The Caarth-like serpent guard in Temple of Terror is a Justrali warrior. I
believe that they are also chronicled in Out of the Pit (possibly only under
the Caarth section), but I haven't read the book for some time, so I can't
be sure. The next thing I want to discuss is the structure of Maelstrom. If
you do not wish to know anything about this book, please stop reading now!

That's better. I picked up Maelstrom a couple of years ago at a second hand
bookstore. I'd always wondered what it would be like, because it had often
featured in an advertisement in the UK/Australian edition FF books (along
with "What is Dungeons and Dragons - another book that I happened to pick up
on that same fateful day). I meant to pick up on the fact that it not a FF
book the other day, but unfortunately, time is short on my behalf at the
moment. Anyway, Maelstrom is an RPG set in 17th or 18th century England (I
think!) - although it says that the system can basically be used in any
worldly location, at any time. It is a very 'real' gamebook - i.e. not
fantasy. Basically, your character lives through the existence of someone in
17th or 18th century England. You can be a wayfarer, a tradesman, a priest,
a noble - or basically anyone at the time period. You can also be a mage,
but there is no magic - only luck. The "spells" that you cast rely on
probability. Say if the party encounter a group of brigands. the simplest
"spell" that can be cast would be for the leader to trip up. This has a fair
chance of happening, as he could do so (but over his own shoelaces).
However, if say the "spell" to be cast was a fireball or something, then
there is virtually no chance of this happening!

Another short coming was the combat system. In Fighting Fantasy books, you
have an initial stamina of 14-24, and you die when it reaches zero. In
Maelstrom, if you take a wound (like a nick on the arm), it takes about 6
weeks to recover! (not to mention risk of infection etc). As I mentioned
above, a very 'real' RPG.
The playable adventure in the book was a journey from St Albans (No, not
YOUR St Albans, Darren!) to London. 

Oh well, that's a brief outline of the RPG. If there's any more questions,
I'd be happy to answer them (but you might be testing my memory a bit).

Tristan Taylor

Just a few questions about the Trolltooth Wars,

Calorne Manitus would have seen Vallaska Roue when he killed the two elves 
in the inn, and he also knew about Darkmane's quest against Marr, so why did 
he suggest that Darkmane should hire Mantrapper, when he had just been 
talking to one of Marr's main men? Surely he would have known about Roue's 
background?

Also, when Zagor teleports Darkmane onto the GalleyKeep, why didn't they 
just send the firepowder through the teleport, so that it would blow the 
ship up as soon as it was teleported?

What's with Mantrapper's gravity defying hair?

Wouldn't Lisamina be able to return to Titan, once Dire's body had been 
destroyed? Dire couldn't return to a dead body, and the Sorq had no reason 
to return, because Dire wouldn't be able to show them magic, so wouldn't it 
be safe to return?
Also, if the Sorq didn't care about taking other mortal's minds, why didn't 
they just take Dire's mind to learn about his magic?

Well, that's all. I'll probably think of more later.

Lachlan Austin

I would suggest that either Roue's background was not known by Manitus or
that Mantrapper's was also known - a friend of Yaztromo could not be a
traitor, surely.

The question about the hair's a good one, I've often wondered the same
thing.

54 pages and a dramatic ending would be lost if Darkmane wasn't teleported,
so that's another question answered.

As for Lisamina, I haven't read the book for 10 years so I can't really
recall who or what she is, sorry.

Chris

Hi there,

One of my favorite things that I used to do was map my Fighting Fantasy
books, and as such I have many maps that I have created.  It's
interesting to see how it all hangs together once a map has been
perfected.  

I was wondering if anyone out there has any maps that they have made
that they could scan and send (or snail mail ?).  Mine are all hand
drawn, though I did spend some considerable time on them.  I been
thinking lately of using some sort of graphic art tool to computerize
these maps.

Anyway, as I said, I would love to see other peoples interpretations of
the books and compare their maps to mine.  And I don't mind sending my
maps out if anyone is interested.

Regards,

Darren Blizzard

Greetings all,

I'm new to the list and the FF Internet community in general, so I 
thought an intro was in order before I fire any questions at your 
knowledgeable minds.

My name is Nathan Mahney (I've already noticed another Nathan 
on the list, so let's hope we canavoid confusion), and I've recently 
rediscovered my love of the game book genre, especially FF.  The 
folly of my youth saw me selling my collection in a fit of maturity 
(don't worry, the maturity wore off fairly quickly), so I'm desperately 
trying to reacquire the books.  It might take a while, though, us Uni 
students are notoriously low on funds :(

Anyway, some questions!

1)  I'm currently working on a gamebook that I hope to publish on 	  
     the web.  I'm wondering in which books I can find info on the      
     Caarth (apart from Out Of The Pit).

2)  Has anyone else noticed that the books set in central Allansia   
     are pretty much all written by Ian and Steve?  Was this an off-    
     limits region to the sub-authors or not?

3)  Is it just me, or is Ian Livingstone a complete sadist?  (Sorry,     
     I'm getting frustrated with Freeway Fighter.)  He seems to          
    delight in ending the book when I fail one measly roll *grumble*

4)  So, do any of you guys live near Ballarat in Victoria, Australia?

Oh, before I go, I'd like to commend Nathan Page on his efforts 
with Forest Of Dreams.  I've been playing it the last few days, and 
it's a good deal better than some of the official books, IMO.  I'll be 
happy to buy a copy when it gets printed (and when I get money 
>:(  )

Seeya.

- Nathan Mahney -

Yo Nathan M

hey, the Caarth made a brief cameo in Battleblade Warrior and there was 
loads of useful info on them in Titan as well. hope that helps!

cheers

andy wright

As well as battleblade warrior the caarth also appeared in Curse of the
Mummy (#59) and there's always the Caarth-like serpent guard in Temple of
Terror.

As for Cantral Allansia being the realm of Ian and Steve, I think this is
more to do with them pretty much using up the possibilities there. Less was
known about Khul and the Old World so other authors were more free to write
about them. Khul was untamed wilderness and wasteland while the Old World,
with the exception of Kakhabad, was more European, giving it the same nice
gothic feeling of just about any Peter Cushing film that you can name
(except Dr Who and the Daleks of course).

And Yes Ian was always a bit of a sadist, both to the adventurer and the
other character of his book (although strangely, in #6 one of these is him).

Right, anyway, I'll just put out a bit of an appology about the
Play-By-E-Mail game. I had a slight technical hitch, in that the computer
seems to have eaten it without trace. So, unless I find the file again
somewhere I'll have to type it all up again (thank god for printed copies)
so there's going to be a bit of a delay in getting it out to you. Anyone
interested in playing who hasn't yet let me know, give me a shout on
Bert_Snubb@lineone.net .

Chris

Oh yeah, for those of you interested in picking up rare books but have
failed using Nathan's ad in the paper technique, try the pub. I got
Tantalon, Casket and the poster book all in near-mint condition, for a pint
of Guiness each just because I got into a nostalgic conversation with a guy
about FF.

Chris

The Caarth were also in Demonstealer.

Lachlan Austin

Wanted to start a debate regarding the SORCERY! Series.  Who thinks they
were the greatest ?  None of the other FF's captured my imagination more
than the Sorcery! Series and I must have read it at least 50 times.
Personally I think the Old World is the best of the FF settings anyway,
so to have an adventure set there over 4 books is fantastic.  Names such
as Shamutanti, Khare, Analand, Baddu-Bak, Lake Lumle, Forest of Snatta,
Mampang, High and Low Xamen, Baklands, Mauristatia (The Cloudcap
Mountains) etc all conjure up such exotic and high adventure thoughts
that it gives me wonderlust.  I was always hopeful that Steve Jackson
would devise a sequal to Sorcery! Where you could re-take on the role of
the Analander and go on some other sort of mission.  Ok, so it's not
original, but so what.  There were so many places on that Soercery!
Kahkabad map that were never visited in the series that sound awsome
that surely a new Sorcery! Series could be written.  So come on Steve,
if you see any of this mailing list (does anyone know if Steve and Ian
know of this rekindling of interest in FF ??) how about another dose !
All those in favour say "AAAAYYYYYEEEEE!!!!!!".  All those opposed will
be dropped into the sewers of Khare.

Anyway, opinions of the Sorcery! Series please.....surely there are
other Sorcery! Fans out there who enjoyed the stories more than any of
the original FF series (though I am a big fan of those too, don't worry
about that!). 

Regards,

Darren Blizzard

I quite agree your sentiments. The writing, and the great John Blanche
pictures and the spell system, just seemed to elevate this series into 
something that the rest of FF never quite aspired. If Steve does read this
I second your wish for a sequel, although didn't Steve make an attempt at
this
eons ago in the Warlock magazine - set in the Cloud Cap mountains?

Regards,

-Sean Lord

Totally agree with you Darren, I liked the Sorcery series better than any 
other FF books.I dunno if the Blanche artwork was as good as the pix in 
Clash of the Princes, but the whole atmosphere of the series was spot on, in 
terms of a radical departure from the same tired old fantasy cliches. The 
Cloudcap adventure in Warlock was just a boardgame however, and although 
fun, was no real comparison to the series.

cheers

Andy Wright

Right, I'm going to make myself unpopular again. I disagree with the opinion
that the sorcery series was the greatest FF of all. I don't disagree with
the thoughts that the the books were great (as they clearly were a lot
better than most of the standard FF books), and despite being someone who's
never really liked Blanche's artwork, I loved the illustrations. I just
never really thought that Steve was the best writer of FF, preferring Ian's
style, and preferring the gothic horror Old World of Stephen Hand and Keith
Martin (with the piccies by McKenna). Perhaps I'm just weird, but I'm sure I
can't be the only one who disagrees with this great reverence that everyone
seems to feel about Sorcery.

Well, in the words of Ian and Steve, may your Stamina never fail

Chris

Hello,

  I also liked the Sorcery best above all and I made the gamebook
manuscript I wrote a couple years ago as a kind of tribute to the
series--the adventurer in this case is the son of the hero who slew the
Archmage (demon) etc.

I think it was aspects like the interactive quality of the spells (you
actually have to memorize them, easy as that is), the breadth o fthe
imaginative epic, and the fascinating continuity from the first book to
the final one, along with the clever cast of characters (enemies and
allies, and interesting combinations of those dualities) that contribute
to the success of the series.  But everyone has an opinion, no problem.

ahoy,

Jason Harris

Hi all,

    I must agree with Aardvark of Doom, I also never rated steve much, I
always preferred  Ian`s work. However I do think that Steve excelled in the
Sorcery series. I just wished that some of his FF books met the high
standard of the Sorcery series.

I am looking for a good copy of the AFF book Allansia, if anyone can help I
would be grateful.

Martin Knight

Hi, all,

I'm going to jump on the bandwagon for this one. In other words, I
really enjoyed Sorcery! as well... I remember as a kid, going from store
to store, trying to find out how the adventure continued. The one thing
I would like to address (and this is because I've heard complaints about
this), is the end to the series. If there are those of you out there
that haven't read the series and don't want it spoiled, I would advise
you to quit reading (ala Dungeoneer! :) ). Anyway, I don't happen to
think that the weak-ass demon was that anticlimactic at all. The reason
I think this is because, well, you just had to hoof it all the way
through 4 books to get to this guy, and if he were god-like, and you
died, it's back to the beginning. That's why I think there's only the
one really hard boss, that being the Manticore of book one. On top of
that, I've actually died fighting the demon... I couldn't believe it,
and I hung my head in shame. :) Anyway, I'd be interested in hearing any
retorts to this. Happy trails,

Ben

P.S. I thoroughly like the art of John Blanche and Steve's writing, but
that's really just a matter of opinion, I guess.

Ben Pearson

I would have to side with Bert. While I found the Sorcery series most
enjoyable, it never really scratched the position to my mind of some of the
better Fighting Fantasy books. City Of Thieves, for example, will always
bring me fonder memories, as Ian McCaig's illustrations there are better
than John Blanche's. I will have to also agree with someone else (I cannot
remember who, I am sorry) in that I enjoy the gothic horror titles with
Martin McKenna illustrations. Dead of Night and Vault of The Vampire
actually scared me in a way that I had not expereinced since House Of Hell.
I like the Old World because of the horror books set there, but my favourite
continent is still Khul.

Jam Norman

I also preferred the Sorcery! books to the mainstream FF adventures.
They required the skill/memory of the player far more than the regular
books. The adventures themselves? Can't really comment on. I didn't
like Shamutanti too much (seemed to be very easy to get through) but
the settings were, as you say, very good!

Fans of the Sorcery! series should look forward to my forthcoming book-
Swords and Sorcery: The Edge of Darkness. See if you can guess the
mechanics of the book? :)

Nathan Page

Thanks to everyone who answered my questions, you're a great 
help.  Hopefully I can finish this gamebook before I end uni so that 
I'll still have internet access to put it on the web!  Thankfully I have 
a friend who still has all of his ff books, so I can borrow what I need 
from him.

Anyway, I was looking through some of my old role-playing mags 
and I found an interview in an issue of GM with Steve and Ian.  
They talk about FF, Steve talks about FIST, and there's a list of 
everything they'd worked on up to that point (about 1989ish).  Does 
anyone want me to type it up or scan it onto the web?

- Nathan Mahney -

yo Marian

yeah, BS3 is kinda crucial to the whole plot - it's also my favourite, in 
terms of atmosphere, although 5 is nice and epic.Have you seen the Dragon 
Warriors books on which the whole series is based?

cheers

Andy Wright

I got the first, second and fifth book of this series, but somewhere along
the way I lost the first one. Actually, that one was my favourite although
it wasn't essential to the plot overall. It did have a Deathtrap Dungeon
sort of feel to it though, and introduced the reader to the current Magi of
Krarth, which although not essential, does explain things quite a bit.

I've also got some of the Dragon Warriors series, all except the fifth one.
As a younger lad a group of friends and I played that campaign a little. It
was fairly good if I remember correctly, but it died out in just a few
years.

Adam Hodgkiss

>I've also got some of the Dragon Warriors series, all except the fifth one.
>As a younger lad a group of friends and I played that campaign a little. It
>was fairly good if I remember correctly, but it died out in just a few
>years.

Depends what you mean by died out.

Dragon Warriors 2 is currently being developed by Dave Morris and Tim Harford (a 
fan of DW who has been running games in the Legend world for many years). 
Designer's notes on the game in progress will be appearing in Tim's fanzine Annwn 
(and if you think that's a silly title, blame me, as I named it). Details on the fanzine 
can be found at Tim's website http://freespace.virgin.net/tim.harford/annwn.htm 
though I must confess I have been unable to connect to it.

----
Best wishes

Paul Mason

Maybe (surely ?) this was debated on the list but I wonder why the
Doomstones were scattered throughout Magnamund after Zagarna completed his
quest. Wouldn't he be invincible else with all their powers ???
(Lone Wolf doesn't scattered the Lorestones after his quest, so why Zagarna
did it ?).

How could Vonotar not to detect the presence of a Doomstone inside Ikaya
while he was (for a short time) Brumalmarc ?

And how made Zahda to  own one of them without going out of Kazan Oud ???
(now, I'm wondering since when Zahda has built Kazan Oud when Lone Wolf
destroy it).

Thanks to anybody who can answer these questions !

Fabrice Cadillon

CADILLON Fabrice wrote:
> 
> Maybe (surely ?) this was debated on the list but I wonder why the
> Doomstones were scattered throughout Magnamund after Zagarna completed his
> quest. Wouldn't he be invincible else with all their powers ???
> (Lone Wolf doesn't scattered the Lorestones after his quest, so why Zagarna
> did it ?).
> 

Lone Wolf didn't but it would seem that Sun Eagle did.

One strange thing here is that Lone Wolf carry around these Lorestones
for a long time and nobody around him comments on him having them. (He
has at least one Lorestone for the duration of Lone Wolf 11. The
Lorestones radiate at least as much goodness as the Sommerswerd so how
does that fit with the Chaos-master and the Ironheart Boradsword.
Serocca detected their presence immediately when they entered Aon.)

> How could Vonotar not to detect the presence of a Doomstone inside Ikaya
> while he was (for a short time) Brumalmarc ?
> 

The Brumalmarc is just a title, and anyway the temple probably hid the
presence of the Doomstone magically. I don't believe the Ice barbarians
knew of the Doomstone, and even if they did they would probably not be
inclined to tell Vonotar.

It's btw, very hard to explain the presence of the doomstone in Ikaya.
The Ancients who put it there are likely the Shianti and they departed
to Lorn before Zagarna started his quest.

> And how made Zahda to  own one of them without going out of Kazan Oud ???
> (now, I'm wondering since when Zahda has built Kazan Oud when Lone Wolf
> destroy it).
> 

Are you referring to the Doomstone or the Lorestone?

In any case the Lorestone was left in Kazan-Oud by Sun Eagle. Zahda
arrived at Kazan-Oud after Sun Eagle's quest, and it was he who turned
the then fairly normal fortress into Kazan-Oud.

I'm not sure but I think that the Doomstone was likely also somewhere
inside the Fortress when Zahda first arrived. This however, would place
the Doomstone inside the fortress at a time when Zagarna ought to have
it.

The easiest solution to the dilemma goes something like this:
Zagarna sent out his minions to capture the Doomstones. When he had all
of them he acquired/absorbed their powers, which caused the Doomstones
to disappear and materialize in another place.

As for Sun Eagle and the Lorestones, I assume that the Elder Magi
adviced him to absorb their power and then leave the Lorestone where it
was so that Kor-Skarn (Lone Wolf) the second son of the sun- could quest
for them at a later time.

The legend doesn't tell of a third son of the sun, so therefore the same
didn't apply for Lone Wolf. He absorbed it's power but took the stones
with him.

> Thanks to anybody who can answer these questions !
> 
> Fabrice Cadillon
> http://perso.club-internet.fr/fabcad

Regards,
Robert Ekblad

>for a long time and nobody around him comments on him having them. (He
>has at least one Lorestone for the duration of Lone Wolf 11. The
>Lorestones radiate at least as much goodness as the Sommerswerd so how
>does that fit with the Chaos-master and the Ironheart Boradsword.
>Serocca detected their presence immediately when they entered Aon.)

Yes, that's really strange that the Chaos Master didn't feel the
Sommerswerd...

>> How could Vonotar not to detect the presence of a Doomstone inside Ikaya
>> while he was (for a short time) Brumalmarc ?
>>
>
>The Brumalmarc is just a title, and anyway the temple probably hid the
>presence of the Doomstone magically. I don't believe the Ice barbarians
>knew of the Doomstone, and even if they did they would probably not be
>inclined to tell Vonotar.

I think so, yes. After all, Ikaya is "impregnated" with old Shianti magic.

>It's btw, very hard to explain the presence of the doomstone in Ikaya.
>The Ancients who put it there are likely the Shianti and they departed
>to Lorn before Zagarna started his quest.

Uh, what mean 'btw' ? (don't forget I'm french ;o) )

>Are you referring to the Doomstone or the Lorestone?

I was referring to the doomstone...

>I'm not sure but I think that the Doomstone was likely also somewhere
>inside the Fortress when Zahda first arrived. This however, would place
>the Doomstone inside the fortress at a time when Zagarna ought to have
>it.

ah ah... another 'temporal paradox' ;o)

>The easiest solution to the dilemma goes something like this:
>Zagarna sent out his minions to capture the Doomstones. When he had all
>of them he acquired/absorbed their powers, which caused the Doomstones
>to disappear and materialize in another place.

With the power of the 7 doomstones, I think that Zagarna should be greatly
more powerful than Vashna...
What I have difficulties to understand is the fact that the powerstones
empty suddenly and recharge progressively. But I (hardly) remember that
Laurent Bercot gave us a pretty good explanation for that.

>As for Sun Eagle and the Lorestones, I assume that the Elder Magi
>adviced him to absorb their power and then leave the Lorestone where it
>was so that Kor-Skarn (Lone Wolf) the second son of the sun- could quest
>for them at a later time.

I'm right with that...

>The legend doesn't tell of a third son of the sun, so therefore the same
>didn't apply for Lone Wolf. He absorbed it's power but took the stones
>with him.

But no legend talks about an evil creature who shall retrieve the doomstones
after Zagarna...

Thanks
Fabrice Cadillon

> > I wonder why the  Doomstones were scattered throughout Magnamund > 
> >after Zagarna completed his quest.

Hmm. Perhaps after the fall of the darklords they were scattered ,hidden or 
lost?

> > Wouldn't he be invincible else with all their powers ???

No more invincible than LW. Besides I always thought the doomstones were 
mere "mockery" of the orginal lorestones and were less powerful

> > (Lone Wolf doesn't scattered the Lorestones after his quest, so > why 
>Zagarna  did it ?).

Perhaps LW is less secertive and paroniod than Zagarna who hid the 
doomstones to prevent other darklords from using them? After his death, they 
were mostly lost?

>One strange thing here is that Lone Wolf carry around these >Lorestones for 
>a long time and nobody around him comments on him >having them.

Actually I always thought he just absorbed the essence from them and the 
lorestones would be nothing but empty vessals.Does it state specifically 
anywhere between LW 6-12 that he actually takes the lorestones themselves ? 
Of course in 13 onwards it is stated that he keeps them all in the sun 
vault.

> > And how made Zahda to  own one of them without going out of Kazan > >Oud 
>???

Well, does anyone know any history about Zahada? IS he a fallen Elder Magi 
who was corrupted by the doomstone?

Aaron Tay

Aaron Tay wrote:
> 
> > > I wonder why the  Doomstones were scattered throughout Magnamund >
> > >after Zagarna completed his quest.
> 
> Hmm. Perhaps after the fall of the darklords they were scattered ,hidden or
> lost?
> 

Doesn't make sense. Zagarna completed his quests a millenia before the
daklords fell. The doomstones were scattered long before that.

> > > Wouldn't he be invincible else with all their powers ???
> 
> No more invincible than LW. Besides I always thought the doomstones were
> mere "mockery" of the orginal lorestones and were less powerful
> 

They were pretty much invincible even without them, and so were Agarash
who created them. Invincibility sems to be a very relative thing in
Magnamund.

> > > (Lone Wolf doesn't scattered the Lorestones after his quest, so > why
> >Zagarna  did it ?).
> 
> Perhaps LW is less secertive and paroniod than Zagarna who hid the
> doomstones to prevent other darklords from using them? After his death, they
> were mostly lost?
> 

No, they were scattered long before Zagarna's death. Dakushna had one,
Zahda one, and one were in Ikaya.

The Doomstones seems to have been scattered as soon as Zagarna obtained
them, or not long afterwards, or alternatively, Zagarna never got hold
on more than 3-4 of them.

> >One strange thing here is that Lone Wolf carry around these >Lorestones for
> >a long time and nobody around him comments on him >having them.
> 
> Actually I always thought he just absorbed the essence from them and the
> lorestones would be nothing but empty vessals.Does it state specifically
> anywhere between LW 6-12 that he actually takes the lorestones themselves ?
> Of course in 13 onwards it is stated that he keeps them all in the sun
> vault.
> 

If he didn't take them, how do you explain their presence in the Kai
Monastery?

> > > And how made Zahda to  own one of them without going out of Kazan > >Oud
> >???
> 

Basically because he didn't have to. The Lorestone was there when Zahda
arrived.

> Well, does anyone know any history about Zahada? IS he a fallen Elder Magi
> who was corrupted by the doomstone?

I think I've answered this Q: before. See below:

Lord Zahda is a 'human' corrupted by the Doomstone (The Green Eye of
Agarash as it's called in Legends 11). Zahda's power and the evil of
Kazan-Oud comes from the stone (and from the fortress itself). I think
something similar happened to Zahda as for Warlord Magnaarn, with the
difference that Warlord Magnaarn was in better knowledge of the
consequences of his assocaiation with the Doomstone of Darke.

However, the important point here is that the source of evil power is
the Doomstone and the fortress of Kazan-Oud. It says in Legends 11
(about the Doomstone and the fortress): "... are perfectly matched to
each other and operate in exact synchrony"

There is the following paragraph in Legends 11 page 274. (Zahda speaks
to Lone Wolf)

"This place gets to you, It can twist you. Before I came here I was a
wit, a comic, a lord who led his troops by laughter. But the grim stone
walls heard my laughter, and warped the echoes they sent back to my
ears."

There's nothing more about his origins as far as I know. Myself I'm more
curious how the Doomstone ended up in Kazan-Oud because that's more of a
mystery.

However, in Legends 11 not all facts point in the same direction
for Zahda. Some sources induce that he's just a luckless pawn in the
game of little importance, others describe him as evil, and he's
certainly evil in deed since the Doomstone&Fortress controls him and
his actions to a large degree.

His servants are likely the troops he commanded when he entered
Kazan-Oud, courrpupted to evil by the Doomstone and the fortress of
Kazan-Oud.

Robert Ekblad

> > > Wouldn't he be invincible else with all their powers ???
> 
> No more invincible than LW. Besides I always thought the doomstones were 
> mere "mockery" of the orginal lorestones and were less powerful

Yes.  After all, Lone Wolf was able to destroy the doomstone at Kazan-Oud
with a simple strike of a weapon.  Gnaag's nadziranim were unable to
destroy the Lorestones at Torgar, even given that they had several weeks
to work on it.

> >One strange thing here is that Lone Wolf carry around these >Lorestones for 
> >a long time and nobody around him comments on him >having them.
> 
> Actually I always thought he just absorbed the essence from them and the 
> lorestones would be nothing but empty vessals.Does it state specifically 
> anywhere between LW 6-12 that he actually takes the lorestones themselves ? 
> Of course in 13 onwards it is stated that he keeps them all in the sun 
> vault.

At the end of LW 7, I believe Lone Wolf shows the recovered Lorestone to
the Elder Magi.  This is how they know that he is the Skarn of legend.

As for absorbing the essence from them, this brings to mind one small
point of errata I noticed.  At the end of Lone Wolf #6, Lone Wolf gets the
Lorestone.  When looking at it after defeating the Dakomyd, the stone is
described as plain and uninteresting to look at.  No glow, no power,
nothing.  However, this does not appear to happen to any of the other
Lorestones.  Furthermore, in the Grandmaster series, it talks about the
glow of the Lorestones in the Hall of the Sun.

In a nutshell, the first Lorestone was supposedly absorbed completely when
Lone Wolf touched it, but none of the others were, and at a later time,
the first Lorestone gained its power back.  My guess is this is just a
small mistake by Dever.  After all, the Grandmaster series wasn't planned
until after most of the work had been done on the first 12.

Anyway, that's my two crowns.

Mark J. Laird

> > > > Wouldn't he be invincible else with all their powers ???

> > No more invincible than LW. Besides I always thought the oomstones were  
>mere "mockery" of the orginal lorestones and were less powerful

>Yes.  After all, Lone Wolf was able to destroy the doomstone at >Kazan-Oud 
>with a simple strike of a weapon

Well it could be argued that that was a special case since it was coupled 
with the lorestone at the time.

But then again, LW the possessor of 7 lorestones was "weak" in the presence 
of just one doomstone in the Dark Crusade.

Aaron Tay

Aaron Tay wrote:
> 
> > >Aaron Tay wrote:
> > >
> > > > > I wonder why the  Doomstones were scattered throughout Magnamund
> >after Zagarna completed his quest.
> 
> > > Hmm. Perhaps after the fall of the darklords they were scattered ,hidden
> >or  lost?
> 
> >
> >Doesn't make sense. Zagarna completed his quests a millenia before >the
> >daklords fell. The doomstones were scattered long before that.
> 
> Scattered is just a word. He kept them in diverse places, and with his
> death, his servants disappeared ,died and the other darklords went on quests
> to recover the doomstones..
> 

Zagarna died in MS 5050. There was never any Darklord who successfully
quested for the Doomstones after his death. Haakon got the throne by
other means a few years later and so did Gnaag.

Long before Zagarna's death in MS 5050, one Doomstone had fallen into
Zahda's hands, and one doomstone had been taken to Ikaya, and the
Darklord Dakushna had got one.

My point is: all of these things happened long before Zagarna died.

> Well, invincibility at a non-deity level probably means no-physical
> (non-magical) weapon can scratch him. And LW doesn;t even have that at Kai
> supremeMaster level!
> 

Well in LW 25 he must certainly have some form of invincibility or how
do you explain that Xaol didn't kill him?

> Well has someone said, he probably kept them in various places to keep them
> safe and hidden from his rivals, maybe even guarded by some minions but some
> were rediscovered anyway, and He died soon after to do anything about them
> 

This is a long shot. More likely that somebody stole them from him. (It
wouldn't matter too much after he had become Archlord.) As for the
Doomstone that fell into Dakushna's hands it could have been given away
to secure an alliance between the two.

Very few Evil guys hide their treasures far away while they live. They
keep it as close to them as possible. Hiding them in your own stronghold
is one thing, sending them half-way around Magnamund is another.

There are other ways to explain this. Zagarna hiding them, where he was
unable to use them seems a very far-fetched proposal to me.

> >The Doomstones seems to have been scattered as soon as Zagarna >obtained
> >them, or not long afterwards, or alternatively, Zagarna >never got hold on
> >more than 3-4 of them.
> 
> I believed that he did succueed in his quest but I'm not sure where I read
> that.
> 

The statement is in eclipse of the kai p.107.
Zagarna finally found them (=the doomstones) encapsulated in the body of
a dying man. Zagarna bore his trophies home to Helgedad, and with his
enhanced powers soon succeeded in establishing himself as the master of
all the other darklords.

Regards,
Robert Ekblad

> with the lorestone at the time.
> 
> But then again, LW the possessor of 7 lorestones was "weak" in the presence
> of just one doomstone in the Dark Crusade.
>
>
Yeah, I never did get that. Lone Wolf Supreme Grand Master of the Kai,
slayer of the darklords, etc, was overpowered by a single doomstone.

Damn, even Naar hid from him!

Skarn

I don't recall Dever ever claiming that each doomstone was the same in
power.  Some might be inherently more powerful than others.

Jeff

Still though, the Sommerswerd made no difference at all! I thought that
Kekataag the Avenger, Vonotar the Traitor, or the Deathlord Ixiataaga were
the big bad guys, not a single drakkar with a doomstone.

skarn

> >  > > But then again, LW the possessor of 7 lorestones was "weak" in the
> presence
> >> > of just one doomstone in the Dark Crusade.
> >> >
> >> Yeah, I never did get that. Lone Wolf Supreme Grand Master of the Kai,
> >> slayer of the darklords, etc, was overpowered by a single doomstone.

Two thoughts here.  First, Lone Wolf didn't have the Lorestones with him
at the time.  They were back in safe keeping in the Vault of the Sun.
Second, the Doomstones have a very damaging effect on all living
creatures.  Loi-Kymar states as much way back in LW #3.  Also, recall what
happens if you don't get rid of the Doomstone you find in Ikaya.  If you
don't have Laumspar with you, you're dead.  Finally, recall the prolonged
effect of the Doomstone of Darke on Magnaarn himself.  He was very close
to becoming undead when you fight him on the Palace Tower.

> > I don't recall Dever ever claiming that each doomstone was the same in
> > power.  Some might be inherently more powerful than others.

This is true.  In fact, in the "Story so far" section of "The Darke
Crusade", it is stated that the Doomstone of Darke was the most powerful
of all the Doomstones created by Agarash the Damned.  And since it had
been lying around in its temple for a long time, it is safe to assume that
it was probably at full power when Magnaarn found it.  These two factors
might help explain why it had such an unpleasant effect on our favorite
Kai Lord.

> Still though, the Sommerswerd made no difference at all! I thought that
> Kekataag the Avenger, Vonotar the Traitor, or the Deathlord Ixiataaga were
> the big bad guys, not a single drakkar with a doomstone.

Lone Wolf never had a chance to unsheathe the Sommerswerd during his first
confrontation with Magnaarn.  Remember that Magnaarn was threatening to
kill Lone Wolf's companion Captain Prarg, thus preventing Lone Wolf from
adequately protecting himself.

It is true that the Sommerswerd made no difference (aside from its normal
bonuses) in the final fight with Magnaarn either.  But then, he was still
barely "alive" in a normal sense.  Although he was treading the fine line
between life and undeath, he had not yet fully turned undead.  Too bad,
since double damage would sure have been nice in that fight. :)

If none of these points are convincing enough, we can always claim that
the effects of the Doomstone are a plot device. :)

Mark J. Laird

> > >> Yeah, I never did get that. Lone Wolf Supreme Grand Master of the 
>Kai,slayer of the darklords, etc, was overpowered by a single doomstone.

>Two thoughts here.  First, Lone Wolf didn't have the Lorestones with >him 
>at the time.

Well,since i belong to the school of thought, that the lorestones are 
nothing but vessels and that the "strenght, wisdom of the lorestone is now a 
part of you etc etc" school the fact that he doesn't physically have them 
seems irrelevant.

>Second, the Doomstones have a very damaging effect on all living
>creatures.

No disagreement here, but the effects should not be to the degree that it 
almost totally paralyses a Kai Grandmaster.Also the effects here seems to be 
directed rather than a mere exposure like effect.

>Loi-Kymar states as much way back in LW #3.  Also, recall what
>happens if you don't get rid of the Doomstone you find in Ikaya.  If >you 
>don't have Laumspar with you, you're dead.

Well I could argue that at Book 3, LW was not even a Kai master. And 
Laumspar seems to be a fairly common healing potion, unlike say Oede so, the 
doomstone can't be that bad.

>  Finally, recall the prolonged effect of the Doomstone of Darke on 
> >Magnaarn himself.

Well, I guess trying to use the doomstone and being exposed to it 24 hours a 
day will do that to you. But not just a few minutes exposure to a Kai 
Grandmaster?

>This is true.  In fact, in the "Story so far" section of "The Darke
>Crusade", it is stated that the Doomstone of Darke was the most >powerful 
>of all the Doomstones created by Agarash the Damned.

My theory is that doomstones are more "powerful" than lorestones in the 
sense that whoever owns a doomstone can gain great powers quickly but will 
pay a great cost in terms of physical,psychic corruption.This also makes 
them more attached to the doomstone. On the other hand, lorestones seems to 
be fairly useless in the hands of everyon except the kais, and even then it 
doesn't seem to grant any supernatural powers (such as sorecerous 
bolts,summoning stuff) besides healing you to full strenght and giving 
"insight"?

> > Still though, the Sommerswerd made no difference at all!   not a single 
>drakkar with a doomstone.

Well if only the Sommerswerd could do everything.. But it seems to me that 
the Sommerswerd while effective against almost everything evil (even Naar?) 
seems to work best only against the darklords (they vaporise them instantly, 
as long as you are in sunlight even if in the central of the darklords city 
in BK12?)

weird considering that the sommersword was made a long time ago b4 the 
coming of the darklords?

Against the others, such as Deathlord of Ixia, sorcerous wizardry foes it 
functions just like a strongly enchanted weapon.

>If none of these points are convincing enough, we can always claim >that 
>the effects of the Doomstone are a plot device. :)

Well probably the best reason I guess. After LW 12, JD seemed to run out of 
major guys to deal with. Generally LW and the new order began fighting 
fairly ordinary guys armed with some super weapon, 
(deathstaff,doomstone,claw of Agrash,rune of Argarsh) or some former servant 
of Argarash entombed (now awakened)or some rescuse or delievery  mission In 
fact I'm kinda expecting to see more "X of Agarash" artifact coming soon.

I'm sure you agree the LW books need a recurring enemy, that surives beyond 
2-3 books. Let the new order kai suffer a few setbacks (like in Book 10-11), 
it becomes boring to see the Kai invincible, I mean it's more satisfying to 
be fighting a losing battle . Not like the current new order books, where I 
get the sense that even if  I fail in the mission, LW could easily send a 
couple more of Kai after me or even go personally to deal with this.

Hopefully books 28-29-30 will establish the return of Agarash and not one of 
those, you try to stop...and succeed like in books 4 and 16 .

Aaron Tay

I have a couple of Questions.

1) I cannot remember  because I cannot be bothered to check in Titan, but do
the Snake Demons have one continent each that they keep an eye on?

2) Does anyone else think that some of the sci-fi books are thought of as
bad purely because they are sci-fi, and undeservedly? Space Assassin I
remember as quite good, although I have not read it for a while.

Jam Norman

1) No, Titan does not claim that the Snake Demons take a continent each,
they seem to take one area of nastiness each - Sith is agony and despair,
Myurr seems more towards war and decay while Ishtra seems to like sickness
and plague.

2) I'm with you on this one, although I've never thought that the sci-fi
books were up to much when compared to the better FF books or (despite
recent declairations) Sorcery!, but that doesn't mean that they were all
that bad. I haven't played any of them for many a year but I too remember
Space Assassin being quite good, as I remember Freeway Fighter and
Appointment with FEAR (is that one really sci-fi?). I'm also one of the
weird people who enjoyed Spectral Stalkers which begins on Khul then moves
from dimension to dimension so it's sometimes sci-fi and sometimes fantasy,
although the ending was definately a weak one.

Moving back to the continents of Titan for a moment, what do people reckon
about the Unknown Land in the south-west of Titan. Was it designed to be
there and yet omitted from the text as it is unknown or was it just Luxton's
way of covering up a mistake? Well, whatever it was I suppose we're stuck
with it now, unless someone wishes to suggest that Titan isn't the ultimate
guide to the FF world.

May the gods always protect you

Chris

>1) No, Titan does not claim that the Snake Demons take a continent each,
>they seem to take one area of nastiness each - Sith is agony and despair,
>Myurr seems more towards war and decay while Ishtra seems to like sickness
>and plague.

I was just wondering because from memory (I have not read every single book
for a while), Myurr takes the Old World (Dead of Night) and Ishtra takes
Khul (Phantoms Of Fear) but I have no Idea about SIth

>2) I'm with you on this one, although I've never thought that the sci-fi
>books were up to much when compared to the better FF books or (despite
>recent declairations) Sorcery!, but that doesn't mean that they were all
>that bad. I haven't played any of them for many a year but I too remember
>Space Assassin being quite good, as I remember Freeway Fighter and
>Appointment with FEAR (is that one really sci-fi?). I'm also one of the
>weird people who enjoyed Spectral Stalkers which begins on Khul then moves
>from dimension to dimension so it's sometimes sci-fi and sometimes fantasy,
>although the ending was definately a weak one.

I adore Spectral Stalkers. It is one of my favourites, and in Mark's survey
I placed it as my favourite. I know a few people down here in South West
England who would concur with me, too.

>Moving back to the continents of Titan for a moment, what do people reckon
>about the Unknown Land in the south-west of Titan. Was it designed to be
>there and yet omitted from the text as it is unknown or was it just
Luxton's
>way of covering up a mistake? Well, whatever it was I suppose we're stuck
>with it now, unless someone wishes to suggest that Titan isn't the ultimate
>guide to the FF world.
>

I always found that mysterious, too.

Jam Norman

Aardvark of Doom wrote:
> 
> 2) I'm with you on this one, although I've never thought that the sci-fi
> books were up to much when compared to the better FF books or (despite
> recent declairations) Sorcery!, but that doesn't mean that they were all
> that bad. I haven't played any of them for many a year but I too remember
> Space Assassin being quite good, as I remember Freeway Fighter and
> Appointment with FEAR (is that one really sci-fi?). I'm also one of the
> weird people who enjoyed Spectral Stalkers which begins on Khul then moves
> from dimension to dimension so it's sometimes sci-fi and sometimes fantasy,
> although the ending was definately a weak one.

I agree; I also really enjoyed Spectral Stalkers, but I thought the
ending was neither real good nor real bad... 

> 
> Moving back to the continents of Titan for a moment, what do people reckon
> about the Unknown Land in the south-west of Titan. Was it designed to be
> there and yet omitted from the text as it is unknown or was it just Luxton's
> way of covering up a mistake? Well, whatever it was I suppose we're stuck
> with it now, unless someone wishes to suggest that Titan isn't the ultimate
> guide to the FF world.

I always figured that that was the realm for the FF role playing game
players, or authors that wanted to create something drastically new in
the series. Then again, maybe it was a mistake. :)

> 
> May the gods always protect you

Why thank you! Likewise!

> 
> Chris

Happy trails,

Ben Pearson

City of Thieves always seemed to me one of the few gamebooks which really hardly touched the surface of possible adventures in its setting. This theme is something which I suppose was expanded in the FF Gamebook supplement Blacksand, although for one reason or another I never laid my hands on that book, possibly because I live in Sydney, but maybe because I just gave up looking too soon. Anyways, a few years back I wrote an adventure set in that city, kind of in line with Midnight Rogue, but many of the details, with the benefit of hindsight I'm not sure I have painted a very accurate picture of it. Maybe someone could scan me a few pages of Blacksand or something, just to settle a curious mind? 
 

Just adding my thought's on one other matter; it seems that quite a few people have pencilled in Ian Livingstone as the prohibitively a far more accomplished writer than Steve Jackson. I don't think that's entirely fair. Whilst I do agree that Ian had a far stronger sense of literary style, in terms of prose and descriptive narration, I believe that it was Steve Jackson who pushed the boundaries of what the series could achieve. Note that he authored the first additions of sorcery (Citadel of Chaos), the first space adventure (Starship Traveller), the first modern day quest (House of Hell), the only Super Hero effort (Appointment with FEAR), and most importantly the first gamebook set from the perspective of a creature (Creature of Havoc which coincidentally gets my vote for the most complete gamebook ever written), not to mention the rulebook for multi player games (Fighting Fantasy). Overall, it was Steve Jackson who provided the series with the creative impetus that allowed  it to survive for so long, and although some of his books actually missed their mark in my opinion, without someone to push the boundaries of what the sytem could deliver I don't believe it would have been the success it came to be. Having said that, it's not my contention to say that Jackson was the better author, I'm just giving respect where it's due.
 

Cheers.
 

Adam Hodgkiss

I was pondering on the calculator the other day and I wondered what age
LW would live to, with the age-every-five-years thing. I worked out...
If Lone Wolf were to live to 80, slightly under the average, he would
die at age 400. This goes up to 425 with 85, and to 500 with 100
(obviously). That's it. Anyone got to say anything? =)
-- 
Luke Goaman-Dodson

Well 1:5 ratio is not strictly correct since he did not gain this ability 
untill he was a grandmaster at age ??

>slightly under the average,

Well 80 would not be under average in most countries now, and would be far 
above average in a society like Lw's..

Aaron Tay

Greetings all,

I've made some calculations on how many Kai Lords there are at the Kai
Monastery between MS 5070 and MS 5084 and how the ranks of the Kai 
are distrbuted. I've used available facts about ranks in the Grand
Master books and New Order Book, plus assuming a few more things myself.

You can check it out at:
        http://www.algonet.se/~thyhe/KaiMon.htm

I've assumed 50 Kai in Summer MS 5070 (Lone Wolf returns from Daziarn
and destroys Helgedad at that time.) When Lone Wolf returns the highest
ranking Kai is a Doan.

In LW 19 the Highest rank is Archmaster (MS 5080)
In LW 24 there are 500 Kai Lords.

I've assumed that 35% of the Kai Lords were killed during the Lava's
Siege (LW 18). Otherwise the rate for the Kai leaving the Kai Monastery
is 3.5% per season, or 50% in 5 years.

I've also assumed that 23 new raw recruits enter the Kai Monastery every
three months, for a total of 92 per year. (Thus about 100 children with
Kai skills are born each year, if it's assumed that 8% of them are never
brought to the Kai Monastery.)

The data on the web-page is based on formulaes on an Excel sheet.
Basically, at each rank each Kai is given a certain probability to
improve their rank one or more steps in the next three months that
passes, and a certain probability to remain at the same rank. The higher
the rank the less likely it is that they'll advance. (If you're
interested in the Excel sheet let me know, and I'll send it to you.)

What I wonder myself is how many Kai we should expect to reach the rank
of Grand Master and beyond.

The "Final" row gives the distribution of rank if 634 Kai Lords were to
enter the Kai Monastery. Of these 634 Kai Lords I would expect:
23 (22,64) to become Grand Masters (as their top rank)
19 (18,81) to become Grand Master senior ("")
15 (14,8) to become Grand Master Superior ("")
11 (10,52) to become Grand Sentinels ("")
6 (5,80) to become Grand Defender or higher ("")

All in all there would be about 70-75 Grand Masters from the 634 Kai
Lords, or a little more than 10%. (Hmm. That seems to be alot...)

I find a contradiction in there being 5 Grand Masters (already) in
MS5083, and there only being 10 Kai Weapons reserved for Grand Masters,
especially since the Grand Masters can be expected to have a very long
life-expectancy unless they go on a fatal adventure.

Regards,
Robert Ekblad

Hello all,

Since there may be a few persons who might want the Excel file I have
made it available via the web. If you want to have the Excel file goto:

      http://www.algonet.se/~thyhe/SECORD2.XLS

And then select Save As to store the Excel file.

The file is an Excel 5.0 document. You'll get a better overview using
the Excel sheet and you'll also be able to change a lot of parameters.

Just don't ask me to explain exactly how it works...

Regards,
Robert Ekblad