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Kai Wisdom and Fighting Fantasy Mailing List material #2 On Thu, 11 Mar 1999, Gilles Belanger wrote: > Here's some info on my order for Fighting Fantasy Book #60 Bloodbones : > By the sound of it , it sold out and now they need to reprint copies. ! > Let's Hope You bet, let's hope. However, when I pestered the Puffin offices about this a few months ago (relevant quotes from the letters I received are, or were, posted on the Bloodbones page of Mark J. Popp's Scrolls Of Titan site), I was depressingly informed that the Fighting Fantasy series, including Bloodbones, were "no longer being published", and when I pressed them on whether Bloodbones had *ever* been published, the answer was a cheerlessly unambiguous no. But... who knows? Maybe somebody somewhere was confused. Maybe publishing plans have changed. Maybe some subtle anomaly has punctured the fabric of spacetime and opened a subdimensional conduit to that blessed celestial sphere where people read gamebooks and only gamebooks, every day. Still, if, one shimmering dawn, a copy of Bloodbones does indeed plop into your hands, praise be to... er... praise be to... (remind me, someone, what does it say in _Titan_ about the supreme deity? something nebulous and remote about "Anu", I seem vaguely to recall...), anyway, that will be a rejoiceful day *long* remembered by gamebookers, and I shall leap at once exaltingly into my tank and rumble down to the fortress stronghold of Penguin HQ, firstly to grab my own copy, and then to ask them, on pain of a barrage of uranium-tipped shells, what the drokking funt they think they've been playing at. Graham Hart In book 16 there is a hideously difficult riddle to solve, Im having trouble so I thought I'd copy it down and we could all discuss it. It goes like this: The question is this - while I guard my throne of power how many servants of naar guard my throne of power? "In addition to the loyal servants there are two dwellers of the abyss. When the loyal servants and the dwellers of the abyss were counted together, their total number was doubled when the lieutenants of night arrived. But when my lieutentants of night arrived the dwellers of the abyss had to leave. *Exactly half of the remaining number also had to depart for they were beholden to the dwellers. From the remaining number I picked my loyal servants to guard the throne, I chose all of them, except one who was known as a traitor. I executed the traitor before I set my loyal servants to guard my throne. Im sure I need to now howmany loyal servants there were to start with. The line with an * is very ambiguous to. So any ideas? Campbell Pentney actually, me and someone else on the list worked out that it is always the same as the number Shamath begins with. So the answer is *Ans. at bottom*. I guess the question is really, "What number am I thinking of?" Sam aka Star Lion ** Spoilers ahead ** I've thought a lot about this since the last time it was visited on Kaiwisdom. So READ THIS even if you were around then. There are lots of problems with this puzzle (Legacy of Vashna, section 171 US; section 189 UK). It goes like this: x = # of loyal servants y = # of lieutenants > "In addition to the loyal servants there are two dwellers of the abyss. ==> x + 2 > When the loyal servants and the dwellers of the abyss were counted > together, their total number was doubled when the lieutenants of night > arrived. [ There is a problem with this passage which will lead to problems later. Since there is a distinction made between the loyal servants and the lieutenants of night, NONE of the lieutenants can be numbered among the loyal servants. ] ==> 2( x + 2 ) = y ==> x + 2 + y = x + 2 + 2x + 4 = 3x + 6 > But when my lieutentants of night arrived the dwellers of the abyss had > to leave. [ Since the dwellers have left, there are only two groups: loyal servants and lieutenants of night. ] [ z = # of bodies to be eliminated in the next steps which also equals the number of lieutenants of night + 1 as we shall see. ] ==> 3x + 6 - 2 = 3x + 4 > Exactly half of the remaining number also had to depart for they were > beholden to the dwellers. ==> ( 3x + 4 ) / 2 = 1.5x + 2 > From the remaining number I picked my loyal servants to guard the > throne. I chose all of them, except one who was known as a traitor. I > executed the traitor before I set my loyal servants to guard my throne. [ There are several ways to proceed from here. ] ********* Method 1 ********* ==> z = 1.5x + 2 + 1 [ This is true because half of 3x + 4 were eliminated plus the one traitor. However, the traitor was once one of the loyal servants so the number of lieutenants of night is z - 1. ] ==> 1.5x + 3 = 2( x + 2 ) + 1 ==> 1.5x + 3 = 2x + 5 ==> -2 = 0.5x ==> x = -4 [ This makes no sense; you can't have a negative number of servants. ] ********* Method 2 ********** ==> 1.5x + 2 - 1 = 1.5x + 1 ==> 1.5x + 1 = x - 1 [ Note: x is the number of loyal servants plus the traitor and 1.5x + 1 is the number of loyal servants at the end. ] ==> 0.5x = -2 ==> x = -4 [ This is the same answer as method 1 but it still doesn't make any sense. It arises from the fact that the dwellers weren't loyal and neither were the lieutenants. The lieutenants were said to double the number of dwellers and loyal servants. Yet when the dwellers left, half of the remaining number - 1 were loyal servants. This is a contradiction waiting to happen. Even if you number the traitor with the loyal servants... ] ==> 1.5x + 1 = x ==> 0.5x = -1 ==> x = -2 ******** Method 3 ********* [ Ignore the fact that the lieutenants of night can't be among the loyal servants. You're still left with 1.5x + 1 is the number of loyal servants. This has infinitely many solutions. Still no good. ] ******** Method 4 ********* [ If the answer is 10 (which it apparently is) using reverse logic... ] ==> 1.5x + 1 = 10 ==> 1.5x = 10 - 1 = 9 ==> x = 6 [ Therefore the number of loyal servants is BOTH 6 and 10. This is another contradiction of common sense. ] ================================================================== Whew!! Now I know why Shamath was so confident that you wouldn't get the right answer. There's no logical way to answer the riddle. Even if you knew the number of loyal servants, there are contradictions within the logic of the passage. Joe Dever must have been on Calacena when he came up with this. 8^b Jon Blake Qn: WHat is the most difficult combat you have to face in all the books? 1) Absolute measure.. Highest CS = ?? , Highest Endurance = ??? And best combination I know there's a webpage with all the enemies stats (missing book 21,22,28) but anyway offhand I think the highest CS is 60.. Kekatag the avenger and Deathlord of Ixia. Highest endurance 100.. Book 12 xargath CS 32 end 100 ! It only occurs if you possess the sommersword. I guess you need a quick instant kill to surive this.. Also I think you have 100 end opponent in a new order adventure only Best/most powerful opponent - I would say Kekatag CS 60 end 58. One thing though he counts as undead so double damage if using SOmmersword. At least you don;t get a instant kill with the sword of the sun like against Gnaag (CS 50 end 70..+12 CS ). ANother tough one is the one against Wolf bane..Where you get a Combat ratio of -4 which is roughly balanced ..But you fight untill end falls below 10..so if you already had a low end to start with...?? I can really remember if there's a higher one for the new order adventures..Probably..Since you notice that even the lowly Bandits(abeit in groups of 4-6) have ridulculously high CS in the 30s and 40s..I understood the need to do this though.. 2)Relative measure i.e how early it comes ..For example, early on in book 1 and 6 and 13 you are relatively weak.. About playing the whole sieries.. As Anyone tried playing from start to finish 1-20 and maybe untill 28 using the same character? What rules did you use?How many restarts did you allow? Anyone ever won from 1-20 without cheating or restarting..(Even with almost perfect knowledge/ominscience you can still die from combat) I know this has being disccussed b4 but, how did you handle the change from Kai to Magankai and from Magankai to Grandmaster? I have problems movingh from Magnkai to grandmaster since I end up with a Lower CS base than 25...10+5 (lore circles) + 4 CS (for weaponmastery)and I still lag behind..I would add minblast +4 CS (but it doesn't always work)..So can someone give me a way for my base CS to add up to 25 or more Aaron Tay > Recently I got book 2 of the greystar series, and although it was in mint > condition it was a US version! Further more instead of 350 paragraphs there > was only 310. Plus some of the words, especially in the introduction didn't > seem right, for instance it tells you to add 10 will power for completing > the last adventure, yet in book 3 it seems to suggest you get 5 extra > willpower for each adventure. > Is this edition an abridged version? And if so have I missed much? Any Grey Star 2 I've ever seen is 310 sections. I guess Ian Page just decided to go short on it. (Though #4 is 360 sections.) And since you get to add to your willpower for every book you complete, what's the problem with adding 10 in Book 2 and 5 or 10, depending on # completed, in Book 3? Ben Krefetz I was in a used bookstore in New Mexico about two weeks ago visiting my grandparents, and I picked up Gray Star #3 which I'd been looking for forever, and 4 combat heroes books. I don't have the books in front of me to specify, but in "Black Baron", I was told to go to a page that didn't exist in my copy of the book! Page 232, to be exact. It jumps directly from page 231 to 233. Is this because of abridging? The copyright notice in front says it contains the complete text of the original. Also, in "Scarlet Sorcerer" on page 126, it tells me to goto sections y48 or y63, even though the y?? sections are in the companion book, "Emerald Enchanter" Checking sections x48 and x63 yielded nothing like what it should be. y63 is in a swamp, yet the entry talks about a town.. Again, the copyright notice says it contains the full text of the original edition.. quite confusing, to me anyways. Just so I don't get flamed, I'll add something in about Lone Wolf; What is everyones favorite 'setting' of the series? Not nescessarily book, but area of Magnamund? ~Orion the combat heroes books are very fun.....but for some reason there are mistakes in them....those errors you mentioned are in my copies of the books as well..... my favorite Lone Wolf setting is The Vasgonian Empire in Book 5......gives you the whole Foreign adventure feel....also kind gave me an indiana jones type feel...kinda strange but somehow fitting Greolin My favorite setting? Stornlands - definately. I guess that's why i set my web sites there. Gavin Gallot There are several typos in the combat heroes books... i used to have them all marked with the fixes... but i lost the books and havent had a chance to replace them yet... If your really meticulous you can find the right pages to piece them together... or I'm suprised someone on this list hasnt sent you the corrections... Hmm favorite setting... I really enjoyed Kalte... although i guess it would be kind of boring to keep going there... since you pretty much see everthing the first time... I would like to go back through the stornlands... that was neat to see alot of different towns in book 6... Shadow Wolf Yeah, I support Gavin inasmuch that the Stornlands are the greatest setting in the world of Magnamund. All that political intrigue, corrupt nobles and petty squabblings.... much like the history of Europe. Love to see a series depicting the Wars of the Lorestone where you can pick a character from countries such as Lyris, Eldenora, Salony, Slovia etc. Each with different missions etc. Full scale battle rules would have to apply too. It would be a big task to accomplish such a publication, but I'd certainly support it. Tristan Taylor Favorite setting? I guess the exotic location of the Vassagonian Empire was pretty good...and the fact that you get to travel it in 400 sections! But Kalte and the underground city beneath Tahou had its appeal, in a foreboding sort of way. Steve (aka Grey Hawk) Rick Grotzky wrote: > > I personally have never completed books 1-20 without re-starting. I think > it is mear impossible to do this even with extensive knowledge of each > book. Combats can whittle you down to an extremely low EP and a stummble > could concievable kill you. While it is possible, I think it is very > unlikely. Anyone done this? > > About transferring characters between series, I invite you all to look at > my rules section at www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/5437/lonewolf.html > > Go to the Brotherhood of the Crystal Star link to get there. > > Obviously you can't transfer a character from 20 to 21, as in the New > Order series, you are no longer Lone Wolf. But as far as the Grand > Weaponmastery thing in the New Order series. I believe that you have +5 > CS with your GrandMastery weapons, as well as a further +5 with your Kai > Weapon, so therefore if you posess Grand Weaponmastery with a sword and > your Kai Wapon is a sword, you get a +10 CS bonus. > > Thoughts? > > Rick I never had all 20 books to try it with... but I'm hoping to complete my collection by this summer... I am hoping to be able to spend the summer going through the series from end to end... hopefully I will be able to keep a journal of the quests and list each fight outcome and path choices... Although certain rules I think deserve to be broken... I mean why can't you keep your Silver Helm(+2cs) from book 3... or why not stabalize your backpack # instead of being 8 than 10 it should always be the same... no matter when in the series you are... but I guess I'll just have to wait and see if i can get all the books before i speculate any further... So has anyone out there done it yet? and if you did, were there any minor rules changes that you allowed ? If no one has actually made it through all 20 without restarts how far have you made it ? I think the best I ever did without a restart was 7. I died and restarted in 8... The book that took me the longest to learn though was 5... jeez i used to die in that one alot the first couple times through the series.. Shadow Wolf At 07:24 PM 11/03/99 PST, you wrote: >help me out ..Here's the list I made of the basic spells available to >LW..See if I missed anything > > >Kai alchemy- lighting hand, Mind Charm, Net, Counterspell, Levitation(is >this improved?) I also vaguely remember a spell that was similar to >invisible shield in Book 13 or 14.. > >Magi-Magic- Power Word, Invisible shield..Anything else?? > >Hmm..No wonder Kai alchemy seems the better of the two usually.. >except for stopping missles.Which occurs quite a lot.. > >Anyone notice that the early grandmaster books 13-16..Opponents hurt by >Magi magic and Lightning hand will have different CS and End while the >later books mostly new order will always direct you to the same stats! Yes, was there really much point in putting both Kai Alchemy and Magi Magic in the Grand Master series? An interesting statistic to find out would be how many situations there are in the Grand Master / New Order series where you have the option to use one, and not the other. Tristan Taylor They have quite different uses at higher levels..But the basic unimproved versions are fairly similar.used for long range damage b4 combat..But I would prefer if "Invisible Fist" casue more damage than "lightning hand" . If I would guess though the basic unimproved Kai alachemy is better more often used than Magi magic..Spells such as Mind Charm,leviation are spells which Magi magic has no counterpart.. Aaron Tay Personally, I took Kai-Alchemy at the very start of the Grand Master (not New Order) and left Magi-magic as the last discipline. In most cases you could use either magic, but I found Kai-Alchemy more useful in the earlier books. Ryan (aka Bold Strider) PS: I think the 4th series could have been based on Banedon (that would allow a really interesting set of magical disciplines). So would I...Most of the improved Magi-magic are not so useful.. anyway Exception Dawn of the Dragons- Where the pentrate? spell allows you to kill the dragon with 1 shot ,saving you a combat with 50 CS monster On the otherhand Kai-Alchemy has useful improved spells like Strenght,teleport, ..Strength saved my skin lots of times..See illusion is useful for Book 19.. >PS: I think the 4th series could have been based on Banedon (that >would allow a really interesting set of magical disciplines). I really love this idea. I think we have gone as far as we can with the Kai order..IMHo new order Kai was a bad idea.. About this Banedon series, we could start it from the same time as LW..when he was a lowly journeyman sent to inform the Kai about the beytral ..It would be fun to see things from Bandeon's point of view...Eg Books could be writen from his point of view for Book 5,Book 14 (captives of Kaag)?? I see 2 problems though 1)Plotline..Banedon strikes me as ,at least not doing much after the GM series (in fact I suspect he doesn't do much after becoming Guildmaster..I don;t think we should extend the series beyond around the time of Book 12.. on the plus side, We could include Alyss and material from legends right from the start. BTW anyone wondered why LW was not aware of Alyss untill Book 16 or 17? I hoped that the later versions of Legends would explain that. Of course currently the differences might be too great to explain away.. So " legends" would be very boring if we followed the gamebooks exactly right? 2)Gaming system- Should we really adopt the LW/GS system which will result in Magical powers similar to the GS system? Maybe we should experiment with slightly more complicated systems to attract a more mature audience? After all, the LW fans of yesterday are all growth up...I would say most of us got hooked around 12 or so...and now most of us are at least 20.. Aaron Tay Good idea, although that part of banedons journey has already been done... the magnamund companion contains Banedons quest up until he meets lone wolf... and also contains some of the game mechanics that would be needed to build the books further... i dont remember how many sections long it was (could someone with the companion check?) but it was fairly well written... Shadow Wolf Yes, that's better. I think it's one of the Legends books between #6 and #9 where Banedon explains that he got the skyrider and its crew through a gambling game. I'm sorry I'm a bit shady on the details - I haven't read the legends series for some time. I do agree that the Darklord blitzkrieg that occurred in the 8-year period where Lone Wolf was in the Daziarn needs to be covered, and by telling it through Banedon would be an ideal way. After all, before Lone Wolf goes through the Shadow Gate, Banedon is only a Mage Master. When Lone Wolf emerges after his 8 year absence, Banedon has risen to become Guild Master. This needs to be detailed too. Tristan Taylor I think in LW5, while you're on the Skyrider, the dwarves explain that Banedon got it in a gambling game. I'm not saying the legends don't as well, but it appeared in the gamebook first... Ben Krefetz Hi Magnamundians, Well, I've been so busy at school that I haven't had time to write (type?!) any e-mails to kaiwisdom for a while, though I have been following along. Here're the origins of how Banedon acquired "Skyrider:" "The 'Skyrider' itself was given to Banedon by the Magicians of Dessi, in return for his help in defeating the Gagadoth - a monstrous creature that terrorized their land, and over which their own sorcery could not prevail." -- "Shadow on the Sand" section 291 - Lone Wolf 5 So, what did the Gagadoth look like? One of Agarash's critters no doubt! Hmmm... I see a whole story developing here... James Humphrey aka Rune Strider aka Sir Pip of Avalon aka Paji Pathseeker of Star Wars roleplaying aka White Knight Er, who am I really? Right, Banedon got the Skyrider from the magicians of Dessi....he actually won the CREW in a gambling game....if you re-read shadows on the sand it tells that the Bor Dwarves were once crewman of a more standard vessel Greolin > Can anyone find a use for this thing (The Jewelled Mace)? All I know is that it helps you > fight the Dhorgaan later on in book 5, which you don't even do if you've > got the good old Sommerswerd with you. > Night Owl > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > I know that in the fourteenth book, 'The Captives of Kaag', you can use the Jewelled Mace to defeat a undead who looks same as Banedon. Coq Chantant >Got a quiz question for you guys.... > >FF #16 (Seas of Blood) contains many elements that >parallel a famous historical piece of >literature......... What is it? > >Can you name what Seas of Blood and this work had in >common? (I can think of three, but there can be >more...) > >-Jeff > My guess is the old Sinbad the Sailor story. Does that come from 1001 Arabian nights? I'm not sure, but the elements are there: Fighting the Roc, the Cyclops and the Giant Crab. I guess you can also draw a parallel to the Odyssey, as you travel to an island where the witch turns your crew into animals, which is similar to what happened to Odysseus. Most people have probably noticed that the Place names involved in Saes of Blood - Kish, Tak, Lagash etc, all come from ancient Sumerian sities. Tristan Taylor > At 05:46 PM 22/03/99 -0800, you wrote: > >I just wanted to wish everyone a HAPPY (belated) FEHMARN. > > > >Or should that be a Merry Fehmarn... > > > > -except for here down under, where it's autumn (fall). What's the kai > equivalent for that? (Tristan Taylor) I hadn't thought of that... Merry Maesmarn!! (I believe that's what it's called) Jon Blake I was pursuing a few fruitless searches through the cavernous >halls of amazon.com recently when I stumbled upon the following unexpected >discovery. The prematurely terminated Gamebook series published in the >U.K. in 1995/6 under the series title _Fabled Lands_, authored by the >ceaselessly inventive Dave Morris and Jamie Thomson, appears to >have been published in the U.S. in 1997 under the series title _Quest_. >Or, at least, the first two books were published in the U.S.: >_The War-Torn Kingdom_ and _Cities Of Gold And Glory_. > > Since I was mildly devastated when publication of these Gamebooks >ceased after six of the promised twelve titles (when they had the >potential to evolve into the most epic of all Gamebook series), I wonder >urgently whether anybody on this list knows whether the *complete* series >of twelve books was published (or looks as though it might yet be >published) in the U.S.. Given the appearance of only two of the books on >amazon.com, I suspect not, but wandering as I now am through the >bleakness of a post-Gamebook wasteland, I will lurch ravenously towards >anything that looks vaguely like a new Gamebook, especially if there >is even the faintest chance that the _Fabled Lands_/_Quest_ series >might actually be completed. > > So, any news? > >Graham Hart >gh115@hermes.cam.ac.uk > It is unfortunate that I must inform you all that the Fabled Lands series - which had the potential to be the best gamebook series of all time - finished publication after book 6. I have sent many letters to the publisher, Pan Macmillan, but have not yet heard any reply. I know a lot of you on this list did not receive my catalog. It didn't seem to get through. COntact me if you would like it. As for Fabled Lands books on offer, I have: #1 #2 #5 (yes Matt, I have it now) in quality (i.e. brand new) condition, if anybody would like them. Tristan Taylor I sent a letter of inquiry over two years ago, and received back a piece of card bearing a bit of scribble that informed me something to the effect that they (Pan MacMillan) had no plans at that time to publish any further titles in the _Fabled Lands_ series... which I took to mean that the project was dead, because they had obviously ditched it and publishers are not, I believe, inclined to take up a series again once they have decided it will not sell (which I assume must have been the reason for cancelling it in this case). Hence my surprise at discovering that, following all of this, somebody had started publishing the books in the U.S., and hence my faint hope that the entire series might have been published by that route. Never mind. Graham Hart gh115@hermes.cam.ac.uk It appears that I spoke too soon. Lo and behold, last night when I arrived home, there was a letter from Pan Macmillan publishers. It confirmed that books 7-12 will not be printed by the publisher, and books 1-6 will not be republished. Well, that should clear things up. I believe that the rights have been returned to the authors, and until they find a publisher that is willing to print the books, we will not be able to complete the Fabled Lands series. Tristan Taylor Could I have some opinions on what bonuses you can apply during the archery tournament (in bk 6) I'm sure things like shields and armour don't count, but... What about Alether - Would drinking a potion of alether sharpen your senses so to speak? personally I don't think so as presumbably it is some kind of combat drug that drives you into a crazed frenzy. This wouldn't help in a calm and calculating tournament. Psi-Surge - Would Lone Wolf really be cheap enough to use psi-surge on the other archer guy? Further more could he realistically do it without sending him into a coma or something. personally I allow this and just say that whenever he fires Lone Wolf sends a bolt of force into his mind for just a second (the EP drain is quite significant also) Any thoughts? Campbell Pentney > What about Alether - Would drinking a potion of alether sharpen your senses so to speak? personally I don't think so as presumbably it is some kind of combat drug that drives you into a crazed frenzy. This wouldn't help in a calm and calculating tournament. Probably not, but the contest is treated as a normal combat situation, so anything is possible. Besides, I've forgotten about the definition of Alether beyond the +2 CS... > Psi-Surge - Would Lone Wolf really be cheap enough to use psi-surge on the other archer guy? Further more could he realistically do it without sending him into a coma or something. personally I allow this and just say that whenever he fires Lone Wolf sends a bolt of force into his mind for just a second (the EP drain is quite significant also) It is cheap, but if you want to reduce the CS difference between you and your opponent, you might want to use it. The only way to do that is to possess Weaponmastery with a Bow, use Psi-surge, and/or take Alether or something else that raises your CS (what can you possess at the beginning of Bk. 6 that does that? My memory is fading...) Steve (aka Grey Hawk) I personally use the Silver Helmet bonus in addition to the weaponskill and psi-surge bonuses, becuase to the best of my understanding, the helmet increases your CS through magical, not physical means. -- Mike Richey Eschew obfuscation. OK....I think that the Alether is not the ticket here. I agree that it is for the adrenalin rush needed for combat enhancement. As far as the other, I looked up the passage (#26) and it states: "The tournament final is played out using the NORMAL rules for combat. The only difference is that you start with 50 ENDURANCE or TARGET points." I think that the disciplines are applicable in that case. I mean you get the extra CS for WEAPONMASTERY. But, I think that you should be able to use the force of mind here as well. The only difference of opinion is that I think MINDBLAST would be a better alternative here. Don't you think if you hit Altan with a dose of Psi-surge it would be extremely noticeable? I mean, something that gives you 4 CS and hurts you by 2 EP has to pack one heck of a punch! If Altan hit the ground in agonizing pain then maybe somebody will put two and two together and figure that the Kai Lord was up to something! :-) Seriously, Mindblast would be more subtle and you still get the 2 CS increase while being discreet. Besides, Altan may figure that he just has a headache from the pressure of the contest vice a pounding migraine! As for the ethics behind such an action.....I recall several times during Lone Wolf's travels where the opportunity to use Divination to cheat at gambling or to call the toss to stand watch (was that with Paido?) came about. I can't recall them all but they are there. So, if Joe Dever would actually write this into the storyline don't you think that such actions are inalienable and thus justifiable? The purpose of the Kai disciplines is to offer the Kai Lord certain super-human qualities so to speak. By all means, use them as they were meant to be. Any rebuttals? MYSTIC SAGE (aka: Don Copous) Hi, Given the explanation in Legends 10 of what happens during this tournament, it is clear that you don't use your psychic abilities in this way. Instead you use it to focus your own attention on hitting the correct spot with the arrow. If you used it to blast your opponent you'll probably be accused of cheating. Not that Altan is adverse to cheating himself in Legends 10. He snezzes when Lone Wolf fires his last arrow. Alether would probably be useful as well since it sharpens your reflexes, coordination and psyche. The silver helmet would also give its normal bonus on the same grounds. The biggest issue is probably if you get a bonus for the Sommerswerd, but getting a bonus from the sword makes the combat rather uninteresting. The tricky part is how to apply the Weaponmastery in Bow bonus. Do you add +3 CS or do you (do as you would normally do) add +3 to each random number you pick when using the Bow, treating numbers that become 10 or greater as 0. The latter approach should give an even contest for Combat ratios of -9 or worse (which is a likely scenario.) If you add +3CS you would have to end up on at least a Combat Ratio of -6 to have a decent chance to win. If you add 3 to each random number, you would normally get the -4 CS penalty for fighting unarmed (/with a Bow) *lol* In this case there are many ways of conducting the contest and counting out your combat skill and applying the Bow bonus etcetera. Regards, Robert Ekblad Look on the random number table. In some cases, because of low CS (or a bad roll), you can get 0 damage, essentially missing the enemy. Alether improves CS. One way of looking at it is that Alether somehow improves aim and thus allows one to do more damage by hitting certain body-parts. So from this view, it could be used in the contest. That is just one way to look at it though. What about Nexus/Mind Over Matter? That could improve CS in this case(or does it? I'm not checking the book right now). >The purpose of the Kai disciplines is to offer the Kai >Lord certain super-human qualities so to speak. Going back to the alignment debate, I wouldn't consider that 'lawful'. Just a suggestion ;) Sam aka Star Lion etc. >MYSTIC SAGE wrote: >OK....I think that the Alether is not the ticket here. I agree that it >is for the adrenalin rush needed for combat enhancement. Look on the random number table. In some cases, because of low CS (or a bad roll), you can get 0 damage, essentially missing the enemy. Alether improves CS. One way of looking at it is that Alether somehow improves aim and thus allows one to do more damage by hitting certain body-parts. So from this view, it could be used in the contest. That is just one way to look at it though. What about Nexus/Mind Over Matter? That could improve CS in this case(or does it? I'm not checking the book right now). >The purpose of the Kai disciplines is to offer the Kai >Lord certain super-human qualities so to speak. Going back to the alignment debate, I wouldn't consider that 'lawful'. Just a suggestion ;) Sam aka Star Lion etc. >I recently saw a hardback copy of Ian Livingstone's >Dicing with Dragons....Does anyone know if this is >especially rare or valuable??? > >Jeff I have a copy of Dicing and Dragons, and it is the only one I've seen in my life. My guess is that is pretty rare. The only thing worth getting it for is the small solo adventure at the beginning of the book - almost seemingly similar to the Warlock of Firetop Mountain. The rest of the book is dedicated primarily to D&D, with some references to other RPG's from the time (Runequest, Traveller etc.) What I find funny is that Ian Livingstone, in his photo shot in the book, looks quite old, where in his subsequent photos (as shown in FF 1-50, and then in 51-59) he appears to be progressively younger. I wouldn't be surprised if he's associated with Zagor in some way! Tristan Taylor I was just looking through all the dedications of the Lone Wolf books, and wondering if any of these names mean anything to anyone. Obviously they mean something to JD or else he wouldn't have dedicated a book to them, but i was just wondering if anyone knew who some of these people are. GS 1 - To Joe Dever, without whom... 2 - For Julie 3 - For Pat and David 4 - To Alison FW 1 - For Rus and Sue 2 - For Mick, Michelle and Ryan 3 - For Chris Baird of Citrus Heights, Ca. and Mike Malone of Katy, Tx. 4 - For Tyler Stevenson LW 1 - To Mel and Yin 2 - For Titus, Ben Ryan and Victoria 3 - For Caroline Sheldon 4 - For Bryan Ansell, Rick Priestly and Richard Halliwell 5 - For Robert Alfred Dever (1917-65) and William Roland Chalk 6 - To Philippa and Alison 7 - To all the members of the Lone Wolf Club - may their endurance never run out! 8 - To Ros 9 - To Spencer and Louise 10 - To Glen and Mads 11 - To Ron and Clarice 12 - For Sophie and Ben (With special thanks to Adrian Orr - creater of the 'Mind Reaper') 13 - To Mel 14 - To Mike, Jeannie and Megan 15 - To the spirit of San Diego - America's Finest City 16 - To Margaret Foden 17 - For Chris Smith 18 - To Rick, Nancy & Amy (Ca.) 19 - For Caroline Thomas, Margaret Conroy and Sue Mongredien 20 - For Piet Snyman 21 - 'Fear is a habit. I'm not afraid.' For Aung San Suu Kyi 23 - For Liz and Dwight 24 - For Wayne 25 - To Liz, Michael, William & Charlotte Rofe 26 - For Martin Alltimes 27 - For Julian Egelstaff 28 - To Brian Ash Also, if you have the UK version of #20, look at Lone Wolf's hands. Either his thumbs are on the wrong side of his hands or his wrists are twisted into an uncomfortable position. Night Owl Well, it's not a hard guess why Julian has one of the books dedicated to him :). As for the others, it's probably familiy and friends that Joe Dever knows; authors often dedicate their books to them. Steve (aka Grey Hawk) LW28 Brian Ash Brian Ash is a fellow author ASH1: "Who's Who in Science Fiction", by Brian Ash (Taplinger, 1976) ASH2: "The Visual Encyclopedia of Science Fiction", edited by Brian Ash (Harmony Books, 1977) Gavin Gallot Harold Lopaka Shaw wrote: > > Here's a question that me and my brother have been having a debate about. > Concerning the skill of Deliverance, one can only heal themselves if their cs is > lower than 6? I hold that this is preposterous since, with how high your cs is > in the later books, it will never ever get that low. On top of that, why would > your cs have to get that low if you are healing yourself (thus the name > deliverance). I say that it is a mistake and in fact means that if your > endurance ever falls below 6. This is especially helpful in areas like in #15 > when your Endurance gets devastated. My brother on the other hand holds that > this rule has been stated as such through all of the books, that if it was a > typo than it would have been caught and changed in one of the later books. How > do you guys work this? > > Sean-Robert Shaw > Grey Lord It's a bit strange but there's no reasonable explanation to this other than it's a typo. Even though it was introduced in LW 12 (Curing - Archmaster), and is still there in LW 28. So it should read ENDURANCE instead of COMBAT SKILL. Robert Ekblad > Concerning the skill of Deliverance, one can only heal themselves if > their cs is lower than 6? Yeah, it should be EP. I believe Dever himself said so when we sent him a bunch of questions a while back. I believe that typo goes back to book 12 (Curing for Archmasters), and if I recall, it persists to this day (book 28). rob While we're on the topic, how do you do once every hundred days*or something like that*? I mean, do you take that as once a book? And is this considering planar travel, i.e. in LW19 it is only a few days for you, but for the rest of Magnamund, it is a full year. So? Sam aka The Five Spheres With all due respect to all the newcomers, I brought this topic up about..... November last year. It was after I had noticed that the Archmaster bonus for curing allowed a Kai Master to be healed when their CS falls to 6 or below. I believe we came to an agreement that it was meant to be endurnace, and was done this way to prevent you from getting endurance at any time, not just when seriously wounded. Tristan Taylor I've never played The Fall of Blood Mountain, but I've read about the history of the Shom'zaa at the Claws of Helgedad site. Does its history strike anybody else as being like hat of the Balrog of Moria? Dwarves digging into some long-sealed hole and freeing an ancient force from the old world etc.? Just a thought. Storm Raven (aka Ian Johnson) From: Mr Mage > Does anyone happen to know the location of the korlinium scabbard? > It own neutralizing properties seem to be misleading me... I dont own > book 3 so It could be in there help is apprecaited I am also missing the > silver helm and bracers thank you, wise lords The Korlinium scabbard is given to you in book 12, and a few of the GM books. Speaking of the scabbard, when you get it you are told that if you already have the maximum number of special items, you do not need to discard another. I've always taken this to mean that particular special item does not take one of the 12 special item "slots". What do other people do about this? Michael Hahn R Pentney wrote: > > Im sure that you guys have debated this before, but I'm starting the > grandmaster series and really need to know this. What's with weaponmastery > being carried on to book 13? I realise you get the +4 CS and +2 to hit with > missile weapons but is the bonus cumulative with Grand Weaponmastery. If it > is doesn't that mean you'd get +6 to hit with bows? > Personally I think it is cumulative as: > a) surely the +25 Combat Skill includes weaponmastery (I think someone > said the extra 15 you get was 6 from psi-sure, 4 from grand weaponmastery > and 5 from the lore circles). A beginning character would always add the +5 > bonus, not an extra +1 My guess is that the bonus is intended to be whatever you were entitled to: that is +3 or +4 for Weapons you have mastered. The Grand weaponmastery bonus is intended to replace the Weaponmastery bonus. You're correct, an extra +1 CS is not much. However, for the player who doesn't have Weaponmastery, picking Grand Weaponmastery is all but a must. If you already have Weaponmastery, you can pick another skill confident in the knowledge that your CS is likely to be sufficient anyway. It's also a bit about playability. If you have all books and top CS scores, then counting Grand Weaponmastery and Kai surge cumulative is saying 'I'm immortal! I can only die by Death of Random Number!" Count yourself. If you have completed all the Magna-Kai adventures your CS is likely to be (counting cumulative): 19 (Top starting score) +15 (Weaponmastery, Psi-surge and Lore-circles) +15 (Sommerswerd, Silver Helm, Silver Bracers, Kagonite Chainmail) + 8 Kai Surge + 5 Grand Weaponmastery =62 (= A totally uninteresting character == Way TOO powerful. The only risk of death you face is "Death by Random Number") For a newly created character: 34 (Top starting score) + 8 (Kai Surge) + 5 (Grand Weaponmastery) =47 (== A playable score.) When starting the GM adventures you need a score somewhere between 45-50 to have an interesting character. If you don't want to re-read the books too often then you should have something between 50-55, and then your major problem is Lone Wolf 17. Any score above 55 in LW 13 is abusive. > b) We've all pretty much agreed that weaponskill is culumative (otherwise > you basically die!) so why shouldn't weaponmastery be? This depends on how you handle death in an adventure. If you just start from the start of the book (not start from scratch; meaning book 1 and a brand new Lone Wolf, with new CS and EP) then I don't see why it's so bad 'dying' once in a while. Sooner or later you'll make it through the adventure. It may take you 10 times or 20 times, but persistence will get you there in the end. If you start from scratch (Lone Wolf 1), then unless you've got a huge amount of time on your hands, you may find it worthwhile to bend some of the rules so you have a better chance of success. The thing that doesn't make too much sense is that the skills LW can gain from the start to the GM level only gives him +5CS and +11EP, whereas the basic CS has increased with +15 and the basic EP with +10. However, there is a number of special items that fills up the CS gap: Sommerswerd +8 CS or Helshezag +5 CS but -1 EP/round Silver Helmet +2 CS Silver Bracers +2 CS +1 EP Kagonite Chainmail +3 CS and +1 EP. The net result is that if you carry over a character that has finished the Magna-Kai adventures, you will be better off than a character that starts the GM adventures from scratch. You will also have (less) powerful versions of Kai Surge, Grand Weaponmastery, and Deliverance which in most cases allows you to forego these skills and pick other (better needed) skills instead. The problem I see is that the improved abilities Lone Wolf gained from the time he was an Initiate to the time he became a Grand Master, should cover the gap in Lone Wolf's basic CS (10 to 25), but it doesn't. Basically, what I would have like to have seen, in retrorespect, is an increase of Lone Wolf's CS/EP during the Magna-Kai series, not directly related to the Lore Circels. As it is the Lorecircle bonuses doesn't increase Lone Wolf's CS as much as it is reasonable to believe it should do. Both psychic and weapon abilities, should replace earlier abilities, and not be cumulative. For instance something like: Example 1. For each completed adventure Lone Wolf gets either +1 CS or +2 EP (in addition to the existing Lore-circle bonuses). Another way to obtain the same result is to modify the Lore-circle bonuses a bit: Example 2. Completing an adventure gives +1 CS (Total of +7 CS) Lore circles always gives EP bonuses. F.i. Fire and Light +3 EP each, Solaris +4 EP, and Spirit +6 EP. (Total of +14 EP) Example 3. Completing an adventure gives +2 EP (Total of +14 EP) Lore circles always give CS bonuses. F.i. Spirit +4 CS, Solaris +2 CS, Fire +2 CS, and Light +1 CS. (Total of +9 CS) Of course, if you do any of the above, you're not really true to the rules in the books. Too make things more balanced, JD would probably have needed to give Lone Wolf the option of Skarn-Ska already in LW 13 (and then repeat it in each book), and also gradually filled up the special item slots with additional Bracers and the like, and prohibited Lone Wolf from wearing more than one Helmet, one pair of Bracers, one Chainmail and so on. > c) Grand Weaponmastery really sucks otherwise. Would you really spend a > year learning a new ability, turning into a "consumate master of weapons" > just to get +1 CS??? I reckon it would be around +7 CS to be worthwhile if > it replaced Weaponmastery. Most disciplines doesn't give you more than this. Sometimes you save +5 EP in one place during an adventure. Sometimes a discipline gives you a +3 CS in one combat. (And that would be all for that adventure.) Consider Deliverance. If you read one single GM book then this discipline only rarely adds anything that you didn't have with the Curing Archmaster ability anyway. Strictly spoken, Curing is much better to have than Deliverance, because of the +1 EP/section without combat ability it gives you. This ability is worth a lot, and it's not available to a player who starts at GM level. Grand Weaponmastery does add a few useful abilities as you increase in rank, especially if you don't possess the Sommerswerd. > d) It never says Grand Weaponmastery and Weaponmastery cannot be used > simultaneously, but it does state this under psi-surge. The rules can be interpreted in either way for Weaponmastery. > e) It's flippin hard to win if you don't take the rules this way!! > > Anyway that's my thoughts, anyone else think otherwise? The harder the task the grater the satisfaction of completing it. (But usually also the time it takes to complete it.) Anyway, just out of curiosity. How many of you have actually lost the Sommerswerd in an adventure and continued. (There are chances to lose the Sommerswerd in LW 5, 7 and 16, at least.) Robert Ekblad This message is concerned specifically with the Fabled Lands series of gamebooks, but there are some conclusions to be had about the market for gamebooks in general, and so given the non-appearance of _Bloodbones_ I think this info has enough relevance for FF fans to merit posting on the Fighting Fantasy List. Back in 1996 I wrote to Pan Books (MacMillan) to ask about the Fabled Lands series, which seemed to have stalled after six of the projected twelve volumes, and was informed that, basically, the plug had been pulled. This got me severely riled up, because, in my reckoning, Fabled Lands were the most exciting thing to have happened in gamebooks since gamebooks started. I almost shot off a very stroppy letter in response, but I let it lie. A couple of years later, I started to explore the burgeoning gamebook presence on the WWW, remembered just how narked I was at the Fabled Lands cancellation, and decided that, after all, I *would* write to Pan MacMillan and tell them what I thought. In fact, I was very polite about it, but the letter still implied an element of criticism of what I still think was a morally indefensible termination of a fine series, so I didn't really anticipate a reply. I was wrong! Just yesterday I received back a full reply, explaining just exactly why the series was dropped. The reason was simply lack of sales. This was always the obvious explanation, but the letter emphasises the point bluntly: the first two titles did well, but then sales slid, with the eventual result that the Fabled Lands books were Pan MacMillan's "biggest loss-makers in recent years". As I've said, to have ended the series when they did cannot, in my view, be *morally* justified, but with sales that poor, it was commercially inevitable that the last six books would not be published. Now that I reflect upon it, my earlier opinions of MacMillan were perhaps a bit harsh. The Fabled Lands books were beautifully produced and remarkably good value at only oe4.99 each, so I suppose I should be grateful that they ever appeared at all; although the downside of the low price was, obviously, that a lot of copies needed to be shifted to generate a substantial return, which didn't happen. Of more general interest to the gamebook fraternity is the statement that Pan MacMillan were told by retailers that they had "missed the boat on role-playing books" and that "most kids were playing computer games instead of books". I have always been frustrated by the perceived competition that exists between computer games and gamebooks. There's some sort of marketing problem to be overcome here, I think; gamebooks were always going to suffer if they were portrayed merely as computer games in book-form. It would be better to present them as a genre of fiction in their own right. I mean, people do still read books, don't they? Whatever the reason, if the gamebook market has slumped and retailers believe that gamebooks cannot be sold, then they will not order many from publishers, and if publishers do not expect many orders, they will not print many copies, and if they do not *print* many copies, they cannot *sell* many copies. Vicious circle. MacMillan have had their fingers burned, so *they* are unlikely to produce new gamebook series in the foreseeable future. We know already that Red Fox have dumped Lone Wolf, arguing that gamebooks are a thing of the past. Puffin must, presumably, have come to the same conclusion to have terminated the Fighting Fantasy series. All of this suggests it is rather unlikely that we will see any more of the mass-marketed gamebook series we have been used to for the past sixteen or so years... and yet, the gamebook Web-presence proves that a market of some sort still exists, and even thrives in its own little electronic niche. Perhaps if gamebook fans could gain more recognition, and make their numbers known, some small press publisher at least would see the sense in targetting them specifically, and producing gamebooks again for a smallish, but loyal, readership. Graham Hart Here's a nice simple question to test the knowledge of all you gamebook adventurers out there (though I don't know the answer, which is why I'm asking). In all the FF series (including Sorcery! in this), who or what is the most powerful enemy that the adventurer can encounter? I have a hazy recollection of one book (no idea whatsoever of the title) in which you have the option of undertaking a quest for any one of three wizards, good, neutral, or evil, and if you choose the evil wizard, and then really get him ticked off, he summons some monstrous nightmare demon, of something like Skill 16, to give you a good kicking. This prompts me to a second question: in all the FF series, what is the most pathetically *weak* opponent you can fight? and will anyone admit to having *lost* against him/her/it ? Hmm... now I'm on a roll, I have a third question. What are the most powerful stats that the adventurer him/herself can ever attain? Usually this would be Skill 12 Stamina 24. However, I know that occasionally it is possible for Initial values to be raised during the adventure. I recall that in one of the science-fiction themed titles (not sure which; it may have been _The Rings of Kether_) there exists a combat-suit which, when worn, increases Skill *and* Initial Skill by 2. On the first occasion that I discovered this, I did actually have a Skill of 12 to begin with, and was thus boosted to the awesome level of Skill 14. I then quickly discovered the truth of the old adage that too much brawn equals too little brain, because, of course, now regarding myself as thoroughly invincible, I ceased bothering to evaluate options, measure up potential opponents, etc., but merely waded in, armoured fists gleefully flailing, at every opportunity. I forget what happened in the end; I probably fell through an airlock or something. Graham Hart > Here's a nice simple question to test the knowledge of all you >gamebook adventurers out there (though I don't know the answer, which is >why I'm asking). > > In all the FF series (including Sorcery! in this), who or what is >the most powerful enemy that the adventurer can encounter? I have a hazy >recollection of one book (no idea whatsoever of the title) in which you >have the option of undertaking a quest for any one of three wizards, >good, neutral, or evil, and if you choose the evil wizard, and then >really get him ticked off, he summons some monstrous nightmare demon, of >something like Skill 16, to give you a good kicking. Scorpion Swamp (I think). Dunno if that's the most powerful though- try the Night Dragon. > This prompts me to a second question: in all the FF series, what is >the most pathetically *weak* opponent you can fight? and will anyone >admit to having *lost* against him/her/it ? How about the little snake in Warlock of FM? Skill 5, Stamina 2 I seem to recall (and if anyone has lost against this, you should say three Hail Mary's). :) The third question is a bit more tricky. Do items which add one to your Attack Strength, rather than your Initial Skill itself count? If so, I decline to answer this one, as there are too many options (of course, I haven't played past Freeway Fighter, so my knowledge is somewhat lacking anyway!) Nathan If Attack Strength is what counts, rather than Initial Skill, then how about Citadel of Chaos? I think that the blue sword thing adds 4 to your Attack Strength (equivalent skill maximum 16). Nathan > In all the FF series (including Sorcery! in this), who or what is >the most powerful enemy that the adventurer can encounter? I have a hazy >recollection of one book (no idea whatsoever of the title) in which you >have the option of undertaking a quest for any one of three wizards, >good, neutral, or evil, and if you choose the evil wizard, and then >really get him ticked off, he summons some monstrous nightmare demon, of >something like Skill 16, to give you a good kicking. This book was Scorpion Swamp. I would agree with the previous posting that the Night Dragon was one of the most difficult, although I have also encountered "regular enemies" (not the final boss) with a skill of 15 and stamina of 30. > This prompts me to a second question: in all the FF series, what is >the most pathetically *weak* opponent you can fight? and will anyone >admit to having *lost* against him/her/it ? I believe this is the Jib-Jib from Midnight Rogue. Skill 1 Stamina 2. I think I actually did lose once... because of my low skill (7) and snake eyes roll. Fortunately, the book allows you to continue anyway. That reminds me, has anyone ever encountered the "cheating-proof" mechanism in Midnight Rogue? In one passage, it asks if you'd like to use the grappling iron or something like that, and when you choose it, it says that you are cheating and must start the adventure over again, but this time play honestly. Anyone know of other books that do this (besides in the more conventional ways of noting down reference numbers, adding passages, etc.)? > Hmm... now I'm on a roll, I have a third question. What are the most >powerful stats that the adventurer him/herself can ever attain? Hmmm, the biggest number I ever put down for Skill was 15. I think that might have been Vault of the Vampire or something. In truth, there is a combination of various things that can help your stats, so there is really no limit. Mark J. Popp Well, speaking of all this, in terms of stats there is the Hydra with a skill of 18 (wasn't it?) in The Crown of Kings. . .but since that was an illusion maybe it doesn't count. . . speaking of that book. . .which I liked a lot. . I remember being somewhat puzzled by the end-showdown with the archmage/nether-world demon. . .was the archmage after all the same as a nether-world demon who had possessed that fellow, can't remember his name, Flerd? And speaking of difficult opponents. . .when that damn demon reaches his full size you don't even have a chance to go toe-to-toe in terms of skill/stamina. . .seems like the demon is supposedly too tough for you to fight. . .I'd at least have liked to have a battle possible, even if it had like Skill 30. . cuz after all you'd have your neato spells etc. Just some thoughts folks (also--to those I've proposed deals with. . .remind me in June/July when I'll be going back to the homestead for the books), ahoy, Jason I think skill point is a large factor but not all. skill 16 enemy of #8 #222 is not duty. You can avoid to fight it. and if you encount it,skill 12 stamina 24,luck 12 is enough to destroy it. I think The strongest enemy you have to defeat is LAZAK of #26. skill 12 srtamina 20.2 combo attack is critical. This optional rule makes it too dificult. skill 12 stamina 24 luck 12 is not enough to defeat it avg.50%. Zakad (Japanese name.)#25 is skill 14 and stamina 32. You have to defeat it if your BOMB attack was miss. Titanium Cyborg at #18 is skill 18 and stamina 20. you must have an special item. Hisaya Sano G'day everybody, took time out from the business to read this latest post (couldn't be bothered replying it, but you all know what I'm on about). Actually, I took the time to read everybody else's suggestions, so no-one can blame me for copying! Hardest enemy, yeah the Night Dragon is pretty hard, can't remember it's stats off hand, but I believe it's very difficult to overcome. Having just recently overcome Rainer Heydrich in Return of the Vampire (FF #58), and if you don't have many blood points he's pretty hard to beat. If you are having difficulties beating Rainer Heydrich, I just posted my solution to Mark Popp (Chris Page's one was a bit innacurate), so the master will probably put up the solution at the next update. Yep, Mark Popp is right when he claims that the Jib-Jib is the weakest enemy (Sk: 1 St: 2). However, if you miss him, his yell is louder than a screaching jet 50m (150 ft) away! Appears in Sorcery #4 and FF #29 As for greatest Skill, Stamina.... Oooh, not quite sure, but I think I'll put in that it is possible to start with a Skill of 1, yes that's right, ONE, in FF #47 The Crimson Tide. Unfortunately, if you follow Chris Pages old solution [NOTE TO CHRIS PAGE: Sorry, I just keep finding flaws with your solutions :)] you face a monster with Sk: 12! An impossible fight! Check out my updated solution at the fabulous Scrolls of Titan web page. Tristan Taylor We discussed this a little bit before, but I've got some more information about games played in Magnamund. Most of us know about greel, which involves two teams. Each team has a wooden post sticking out of the ground, and the teammates throw an axe to each other in an attempt to embed it into the opposing team's wooden post. This game is played by the young initiates at the Kai Monastery. It is only halfheartedly supported by the Kai Masters, however, serious injuries were surprisingly quite rare. Most of us also know about samor, a chesslike game in which you touch your pieces, imbuing them with a bit of lifeforce. The pieces change allegiances, so it is quite possible that a piece that served you well last turn will betray you this turn. Then there's vtovlry, which we don't know much about. Apparently it is common in the Brotherhood of the Crystal Star. In one of the Legends books it mentions that Banedon has been lax in his studies lately because of his discovery, and the Guildmaster says that he still plays vtovlry whenever he has the time. For some reason I had previously believed that vtovlry involved dice (don't ask me where I pulled that idea from), but in "The Claws of Helgedad" it says something about feeling like you've been beaten with a vtovlry bat. So is this game sort of like cricket? In "The Tellings," a card game called splitsl is mentioned. There are seventeen cards which are shuffled. Eight are dealt to one player, eight to the other player, and a single card placed in between. Each player takes turns revealing their cards, betting on whether or not that card will be the 17. It's pure luck. Whoever turns the 17 wins the pot, but if the card in the centre is the 17, then the two players brawl over the accumulated pot. Are there any others that anyone can think of? Night Owl Just for the sake of accuracy, greel is played with three teams and three targets. :) Jon Blake My bad. :~) Also, for the sake of accuracy, Lone Wolf's brother died on his sixth birthday, not his fifth as I previously said. Night Owl Hello all, I recently got my hands on the swedish version of the Magnamund Companion. Having glanced at the english version earlier (Some ten years ago) I think I've noticed a few changes between the two. The swedish version is 95 pages. Pages 1-3 is a b/w picture of the sky-rider, contents list and the translator's foreword. The next section starts with describing the history of Magnamund, this I think is much like the UK version. There are full page colour maps of both Northern and Southern Maganumund. This section is 10 pages. (4-13) However, the only mention of Lone Wolf (in the whole MC) is in the mini-story of Banedon, and Grey Star is only mentioned in the translator's foreword. Q1: Was there not a special page or two dedicated to Grey Star and Lone Wolf in the UK MC? Then follows 16 pages (14-29) which describes the different countries in Magnamund, current rulers etcetera. This, I guess, is more or less the same as in the UK version. Then there is a section on the darklords 8 pages (30-37). The first two pages are a big colour picture, showing six Darklords (Vashna, Taktaal, Gnaag, Kraagenskul, Zagarna(?), and one more). In the swedish version there's no list with the Darklords names and where they live, so that's missing. Follows six pages (38-43) on the Kai Lords. (The last two pages is a colour image of a part of the First Order Kai Monastery. Detailing where different things were placed in the Kai Monastery.) Then follows the board game, 6 pages. (Located in an inn in Rgadorn.) This is where I really became suspicious of the swedish MC. The game utilizes the same Combat Table as the LW books. I seem to remember that this game in the UK version had a balanced Combat Table. Q2: Does the UK version have a symmetrical Combat Table in this section? If they have changed this, then they have probably totally revamped the rules. Also a few more questions about this game: Q3: The characters in the Board game are 10. (Lone Wolf, Cener Druid, Herbmaster, Mercenary, Brotherhood Magician, Inn Keeper, Border Ranger, Adventuress, Knight of Durenor, and Merchant). In addition there's a Helghast that replaces one of the above. Is the amount of characters the same? Q4: What is the aim and game-role of the inn-keeper in the english MC? Then follows 12 pages on Sommerlund. Six of these are devoted to descriptions of Lorin Faldon, Aran Rolny, and Jac Taynor. After this there is 12 pages on Giaks (clans, anatomy and so one). Six of these details the Giak languague. (This feels a few pages shorter than the english version to me.) Then 10 pages on how to build Magnamund models (I skipped this section quickly.) Pages 84-95 is Banedon's solo adventure. It's 80 paragraphs long (Same?) There seems to be large number of misprints in the text. After making a mapping I found a bit more than 10(!) places where you were directed to the wrong section. There was also three paragraphs that was not used and there seemed to be no way to get to them. (The paragraphs spoke of an inn-keeper, but there was no inn in the whole adventure!) Finally, there was two paragraphs to which there didn't seem to be any next section (after checking all of them) that would fit... Q5: Is this the same in the english version? Regards, Robert Ekblad > Rob, > You've got to remember that at the beginning of the Legends series, Lone > Wolf is a 14 year old boy who has witnessed the mass murder of everybody > that he knew and cared about. All in all I think that he handled it pretty > well. That would probably send most people off the deep end. > > Regards > Skarn Not sure what you mean here. My post commented that there was a difference between how LW was portrayed in the Legends and game-books. In game book 1 the situation is the same as in the first Legends book. Yet, there's no doubt about Lone Wolf's honour and valour in the game books, is there? There's no senseless or brutal killing. I realise that JG made the Legends more interesting by portraying Lone Wolf as fallible, nothing more than a killer in many respects. But this doesn't mean I have to like it or support that view or portrayal of Lone Wolf. I just re-read the description of the Kai Lords in the MC. There's no doubt about JDs view about the Kai Lords and their code of conduct and honour in the MC. If you read the legends then I would say that in many respects Lone Wolf WAS sent off the deep end (and then brought back to humanity again...) Robert Ekblad In some ways I like the Legends Lone Wolf better than the gamebooks. Has anyone else noticed that in the earlier Legends there are multiple storylines, each focusing on Alyss, Banedon, Qinefer, Lone Wolf, Vnotar, Carag, Zagarna... and in the later ones (10 and 11, at least) the story only follows Lone Wolf. Since I'm missing books 6, 7, and 8, coud someone please explain a few things to me: 1) How does LW get Viveka to stay with him at the Monastery? 2) Who is Petra and what function does she serve as a character? 3) What exactly is The Birthplace? 4) Why exactly did Qinefer leave? In some of the books, most notably "The Lorestone of Varetta," there are quite a few clashes between the novels and the gamebooks. Plus, this book has quite a few sexual references and undertones, and a real bummer at the end when the Silver Bow of Duadon breaks while he's fighting the yawshath. Plus the stuff about Gestalt. Night Owl > Three questions: > > 1) Do you know any way of contacting Dave Morris or Jamie Thomson > (electronically or by hand)? > > 2) Do you think that DM&JT have books 7-12 written, but have not been able > to publish them (or possible Pan Macmillan has a box of them stashed somewhere)? > > 3) Do you think that DM&JT would reconsider publication if a lucrative offer > was made to them? My answer to all three questions is that I don't know. I admit, however, that I have been pondering exactly those questions myself, and indeed I have been considering whether I might write to MacMillan either to request some contact address for DM and JT, or (more likely) whether MacMillan would forward mail to them. The reason that I have been considering doing this is the possibility that 7-12 might actually have been written. This is not, of course, necessarily so. If you look at the structure of the Fabled Lands books, even though specific paragraphs in the unpublished volumes are referenced, it remains quite possible that books 7-12 themselves, and the portions of them that tie in with the published material, only exist in outline, in which case DM and JT, being professional writers/ software developers/ whatever, might not be willing to write them unless they were going to be paid properly for it. The letter I quoted from was not specific on this matter. The only relevant passage is in the last paragraph (which I didn't quote), which says that a computer game set in the Fabled Lands has been in development for a number of years, and were that to prove popular, then the remaining six books might yet be "commissioned". Clearly there are some problems with this statement. Were 7-12 to be published several years ahead, 1-6 would have to be republished in such a way that people who had bought them first time around would be inclined to buy them again (otherwise the computer game would have to be very popular indeed, I'd have thought, for sales to be any better second time around). This, I think, would also be a problem in taking the books to another publisher. 1-6 are now out of print, so what does a publisher do? bring out 7-12 knowing that sales will, mostly, be limited to those readers who bought 1-6? or publish 1-6 as well, knowing that those who already have those books presumably won't want to buy them again? I think that the more interesting question is whether DM and JT might have already written 7-12 *and* might be willing to publish them privately, with a small print run, if they knew that there was a small but very enthusiastic readership who would be willing to order them, whatever the cost (which I guess would be quite high). This is really why I was considering attempting to contact them, and now that I've worked through my thoughts in this message, I'm inclined to think that I will. What do you say? Graham Hart On Mon, 26 Apr 1999, Tristan Taylor wrote: > As for greatest Skill, Stamina.... Oooh, not quite sure, but I think I'll > put in that it is possible to start with a Skill of 1, yes that's right, > ONE, in FF #47 The Crimson Tide. Oh dear, with a Skill of 1 you'd be more likely to trip over your sword than hit anybody with it, I'd have thought. But this set me pondering the standard FF attributes of Skill, Stamina, and Luck, and it occurred to me that Skill is a slightly odd quantity. Stamina and Luck seem straightforward and uncomplicated. They can both be modelled in terms of the adventurer possessing a kind of internal reservoir of the relevant quality, which is drained upon repeated use, or depleted by exposure to certain circumstances. Thus fatigue, hunger, and injury diminish Stamina, which may be replenished through rest and food, and the hazarding of risky situations diminish Luck, which may be replenished through potions or other Luck pockets that the adventurer might find floating around the FF universe. The fullness of the Stamina and Luck reservoirs may be measured in a precisely quantifiable way between the predetermined maximum capacity, and zero, zero Stamina meaning inability to do anything (death), zero Luck meaning always unlucky. Skill, however, is a different species of attribute. Firstly, it seems to stand not so much for a "reservoir" of some quality that may be drained upon use (if you "Test your Skill" you don't then have to reduce your Skill total by 1 point), but as an expression of something as essential and inherent in the adventurer as, for example, his/her physical appearance, only to be reduced through irreparable injury or other incumberance. Thus Skill is more like the Initial Stamina and Initial Luck stats. Secondly, in combat situations Skill operates in a way very unlike Stamina and Luck, in that it is not then the absolute Skill values that are relevant, but the *relative* difference in Skill values between you and your opponent. The odd consequence of this is that it would be possible to have Skill 0 and still win fights! So, whereas Stamina 0 may be interpreted as "no stamina" (dead), and Luck 0 may be interpreted as "no luck" (guaranteed always unlucky), Skill 0 *cannot* be interpreted as "no skill". In fact, you could even win fights with *negative* Skill, such as Skill -1. How might *that* be interpreted? I would have thought that negative Skill would entail not total clumsiness and incompetence (Skill 0), but the "ability" always to do exactly what you are trying not to do: stabbing yourself whenever you draw your sword to attack an opponent, trying to drink from a bottle of potion but instead dropping the bottle down your throat and choking, that sort of thing. Nevertheless, you would still be able to win fights. Still, I doubt that it is actually possible to descend to Skill 0 in any of the FF books. Skill scores tend not to vary much, and you would have somehow to lose at least 7 Skill points to reach zero. What *is* the lowest Skill score that anyone here has ever been reduced to (not including the Crimson Tide example)? I don't really remember in my case; I imagine it would have been 6, or 5 at worst. Graham Hart Graham is right when he says that Skill is an over-rated but seemingly underused attribute. I am glad the FF books rectified the situation, and awarded extra Attack Strength instead of bonus skill points. It seems somewhat of a contradiction when gaining Skill points for a magic sword, but not being able to take advantage of the situation because you can't go past your initial skill. Pity FF didn't incorporate a defence strength, instead of having a duplicate attack/defence strength. Tristan Taylor Jason Valasek wrote: > > >When Lone Wolf confronts Naar in book 20, Naar is afraid to manifest > >and "show himself so long as the Sommerswerd is unsheathed, as he > >fears that your god-forged weapon could destroy him." > > Is that possible? A human like Lone Wolf, wielding the Sommerswerd, > capable of killing the Dark God himself? Wouldn't that too greatly > affect the Great Balance? And, theoretically, what exactly WOULD > happen should Naar be destroyed? I've thought about that myself. In the Legends #1, the passages of Storm Hawk lecturing about the history of Aon refer to the "Lords of Darkness" (notice the plural). I would surmise that Naar isn't the only Evil god and that he is in constant danger of being overthrown by his underlings. Naar probably holds his position because of strength not because he is the source of _all_ Evil. If Lone Wolf destroyed Naar, perhaps there would be a civil war on the Plane of Darkness resulting in the emergence of a new King of Darkness--not the ultimate defeat of Evil. This is a very AD&D cosmology rather than an typical orthodox christian view where God and Satan are the embodiments of Good and Evil respectively; in Lone Wolf's world, we don't have the One God. Which brings me to another observation: it seems that Ishir is the head Goddess among the good gods. Yet the Sommlending seem to worship mainly Kai who seems to take a secondary role in the history of Aon and in other countries' worship. I think this is because Kai is the Sommlending's creator and patron god. They worship Ishir as the head Goddess but Kai is seen as their direct protector. Perhaps other countries in Magnamund don't worship Kai but have their own patron. And who are the other Lord of Light? I don't think this is answered anywhere in the books so I don't expect anyone to answer, but it's interesting to think about. Jon Blake It is interesting to note that the Grandmaster in LW #23 stumbles across an Elder Magi shrine to the God Kai, in (or near) the Doomlands of Naaros. Not saying that Kai is a direct patron of the Elder Magi, but they can at least associate with him (plus the legend of the toura-tas-kai "Sons of the Sun" saga in the Magnakai series). Tristan Taylor >I was just wondering, what is your favorite weapon on the game books? I know >that the Sommerswerd is probably the best, although the Dagger of Vashna and >Helshezag are pretty damn effective against Gnaag. My other favorites are >the Ironheart Broadsword and Skarn-ska and for some reason I really like the >ol' Magic Spear. >Any comments? > >Skarn >skarn@tpg.com.au > Well, after receiving the Sommerswerd, I hardly have much use for the other weapons, although the Silver Bow of Duadon is quite handy. Don't like the adverse effects of Helshezaag and the Dagger of Vashna (especially in #16), and I usually use the zejar-deluga to deal with Taktaal before blasting Gnaag with a fully charged blast of the Sommerswerd. The New Order weapon always seem to leave your possession, so often you have to make do without it. Tristan Taylor Gee, I hate to exhume something that's dead and buried, but I've only just got around to scanning through the 150 messages that appeared during my abscence. A while back, some of the older members of this mailing list may recall a similar discussion, where we picked up on a fact that any excess backpack items / special items / money can be left at the kai money esp. in the Grand Master Series. I believe that we agreed that Lone Wolf could only access these when he returned to the Kai Monastery, and the example was given that Lone Wolf goes to Ixia in #17, but doesn't return home until the end of #18, and therefore cannot access any items left at the monastery between these adventures. As for the most useless items, I believe that most of the items that you can win from the farmers in gambling (#9) are pretty useless. Tristan Taylor According to Magnamund Companion letter equivalents, I tried to translate both Giak messages of LW1 and LW8. Flight from the Dark: orgadak shada taag okak, orgadak ok, nara ek ash jek eg helgedad human soldiers kill you, human I, (dig?) get and (take?) to helgedad That might mean, if "jek" is a mistake for "jeg" (take): "You kill human soldiers, I (will kill) the man, get (him) and take (him) to Helgedad" Does anyone know the meaning of "nara", or "jek"? Does anyone understand the meaning of the whole sentence? From The Jungle of Horrors: tharro der eg zazgog kor shezag. tuja ekar tor nadoknar dogez. Tharro go to temple of/from sword. plan begin for dark officer/leader coming This is clearer: "Go to the Temple of Sword, in Tharro. Begin plan for the arrive of the dark officer." How do you write in Giak the pluralization -im, since there is no letter M in the MC? Some months ago, someone (may be Julian Egelstaff, I am not sure) said he was working on a Giak True Type Font. Is the project still active? Can I help in any way? Ishir ash Kai akag ok. [May Ishir and Kai protect me.] Lupo >Flight from the Dark: >orgadak shada taag okak, orgadak ok, nara ek ash jek eg helgedad >human soldiers kill you, human I, (dig?) get and (take?) to helgedad >That might mean, if "jek" is a mistake for "jeg" (take): >"You kill human soldiers, I (will kill) the man, get (him) and take >(him) to Helgedad" >Does anyone know the meaning of "nara", or "jek"? Does anyone >understand the meaning of the whole sentence? I'm assuming jek is a typo of jeg. There are other places where the Giak is misspelled. Two come to mind. In Book 8, where the bowl of silver liquid in the Temple of the Sword conjures the image of Darklord Gnaag: "Tan-ash-oka, Nadoknar Gnaag!" It should have said "Tan ash okja Nadoknar Gnaag," which means "Hear and obey Darklord Gnaag." The other is in Book 12, when a Drakkar marine officer says, "Shez dot got!" This could be interpreted as either "Shez dok tog!" ("Cut him up!"), "Shez dok tot!" ("Cut him down!"), or even possibly "Shez dok tok!" ("Cut him open!") And I have no clue what "nara" means. It could be a misspelling of "narg" (to be) or "naka", which is the present participle of the verb "to go." If the latter is the case, "naka ek ash jeg eg helgedad" could translate as "Get going and take to Helgedad." >From The Jungle of Horrors: >tharro der eg zazgog kor shezag. tuja ekar tor nadoknar dogez. >Tharro go to temple of/from sword. plan begin for dark officer/leader >coming >This is clearer: >"Go to the Temple of Sword, in Tharro. Begin plan for the arrive of >the dark officer." Nadoknar is Darklord. So it would be "Begin the plan for the arrival of the Darklord." >How do you write in Giak the pluralization -im, since there is no >letter M in the MC? Jonathan Blake invented a letter M, which looks pretty much like the letter X. He also invented two more letters, OO (which looks like the mathematical symbol for infinity) and AR (which looks like an arrow pointing upwards). I don't believe the last two are neccessary, but if you want to use them then go ahead. I don't know if Jon still has the attachment...? >Some months ago, someone (may be Julian Egelstaff, I am not sure) >said he was working on a Giak True Type Font. Is the project still >active? Can I help in any way? I'm pretty sure that Julian has abandonned that project, but you'll have to ask him to be certain. Night Owl This gives me the opportunity to shamelessly plug my seven-language Giak dictionary, which is almost complete. G'day All, just wondering how many people have actually considered using statistics to aid their path to glory in the Lone Wolf series. Already Jason Valasek (I think) produced a table detailing every encounter that Lone Wolf can possible face, that can be used. It would be interesting to know how many times each discipline is used in each adventure, as that could aid you in choosing your initial then subsequent disciplines. More importantly, what disclipline(s) is/are crucial to your success (Nexus in #9 is one I can think of - and you'd probably want psi-surge and weaponmastery to face Zakhan Kimah I imagine), in each adventure. Mapping out each book before hand, to maximise your advntages (items, healing etc) and reducing the risk of combat or getting harmed/killed. Finding out where specific items lie (I bet most people probably didn't find the magic spear the first time they read #2), will certainly help in most circumstances. What does everybody think about that. Comments, suggestions, additions will all be welcomed, I'm sure. Tristan Taylor I actually did count the amount of uses for each discipline for the first 4/5 books of the Grand Master series. I just went by paragraphs, but I checked if any were duplicates of the same situation. I examined the last books when I obtained them and examined them too. From that I figured out the optimum set of disciplines for the Grand Master Series. It goes... 1)Animal Mastery 2)Kai-Alchemy 3)Kai-Screen 4)Grand Huntmastery 5)Grand Nexus 6)Grand Pathmanship 7)Grand Weaponmastery (I don't add bonuses) 8)Kai-Surge 9)Telegnosis 10)Assimilance 11)Deliverance 12)Magi-Magic Now for my two [Insert unit of Magnamund currency here], Personally, I don't really like the Legends series. I think that John Grant took too much poetic licence, and changed a lot of Joe Dever's original intentions. I guess I wouldn't have minded the Legends series, if there never was a gamebook series, but then again, I probably wouldn't have read the Legends series then! Things I don't like: Qinefer's involvement (shouldn't have disrupted the LW storyline) Petra's involvement (as above) Cloud Maker's involvement (as above - do you really think he would have gone back to the Kai?) Alyss (interesting sub-plot, but disrupted the LW storyline - thus forcing Joe to change the attitude in the gamebook series [LW 16+] Things I did like: Banedon's story (Fills in the gaps in the gamebook series without destroying Joe's original plot - similarly, Vonotar's story is also interesting) Lone Wolf's bonding with the Sommerswerd [Gestalt et al] (As you would have probably expected to happen) Viveka's role (Already an established character - but occasionally goes against the original plot) Well, that's just about it. Tristan Taylor G'day Tristan, I think Beaver took over for the Magnakai series. I have 4 Beaver ones - 6,8,9,10. They were actually the first ones that I had bought. I read 1-5 from school / city libraries. I bought all of 6,8,9,10 in one go and was pretty bummed that I couldn't find 7 anywhere. I later got all the others in the Red Fox editions. BTW, 10 was the absolute original print and 6,8&9 were all from the same reprint. Bye, Ryan Im really keen to find out what order people choose there abilities in when they carry characters on. The ones below are only the ones I consider really crucial. The magnakai I consider to be impossible unless taken in almost exactly the right order. Kai Series Initial Choice Weaponskill - (Just for a good, permanent stat increase) Mindblast - (Again just for a good stat increase) Mindshield - (For the helghast next adventure) Healing - (EP restoration) Sixth Sense (Crystal Star Pendant) 6 - Animal Kinship (for the tunnels) 7- Hunting (for the ice flow) 8 - Camouflage (mind over matte is just as good, not needed but nice) 9 - Mind over Matter (as above) 10 - Tracking (you never actually get to use it as you get the last skill at the end of book 5 but hey this ones pretty much useless. The only time its really good is at the signpost in book 1, but once you know the right way you're sweet anyway) Magnakai Nexus - (You need to get that circle of spirit by the time you fight Zakhan Kmhar or or die!! also needed in book 9) Weaponskill - (You need ALL the CS you can get) Psi Surge - (Really really useless until later but hey need that circle!) Divination - (Crossbow trap and trapped sword) Psi Screen - (Not needed except to complete circle) Huntmastery - (Good to finish the circle of fire before you fight the Zakhan, defense against many instant death rolls) Curing - (nothing like a good old EP boost!) Pathmanship - (Languages) Invisibility - (Copletion of circle of solaris, but not really needed at this point) Animal Control - (Just never seems to useful, can animals really hurt you much?) GrandMaster Assimilance - (deathtrap at end of book 13, and great to sneak past that sleeping monster) Grand Huntsmastery (deathtrap at end of book 13 + lots of other instant death rolls in book 13) Kai Alchemy - (Just plain useful everywhere, especially at beginning to blast druid in the back. Also damn fine to blast the pin open in the laboratory) Kai Surge- (At +8 CS you'd be MAD not to take it!!!) Deliverance - (that +20 EP can come in handy, I think theres a point in 14 when its good too) Grand Weaponmastery (boost that CS!!! Although I believe it adds an extra +5 on) Grand Nexus (another all round useful ability) ? ? ? ? New Order Kai Surge - (Get that CS up!) Kai Alchemy - (Just useful in SOOO many ways, lightning hand rules!!) Grand Weaponmastery (Again get that damn CS up as high as possible!!!) Elementalism (Very good against that spider) Deliverance (Defense against the poison blow pipe) Grand Huntsmastry (helps protect against many instant death rolls) Grand Nexus (SOOOO good with that combination lock!!!) From here on it doesn't really matter, you should have enough skills to succeed GREY STAR Alchemy Psychomancy (for the black rod in book 2) Elementalism Enchantment Sorcery Evocation (those floating spirits in book 2) Comments anyone??? Campbell Pentney First of all, a question - is the only way to survive Book 2 to have either the Magic Spear or Animal Kinship? I guess you could say I'm weird, because I tend to choose disciplines that most people think are worthless, but that's me... Kai series 1. Weaponskill 2. Hunting (carrying Meals around bugs me) 3. Sixth Sense 4. Mindblast 5. Mindshield 6. Animal Kinship 7. Tracking 8. Camouflage 9. Mind Over Matter 10. Healing (I for some reason don't find the EP restoration as vital as most of you do.) Magnakai series 1. Weaponmastery 2. Huntmastery 3. Psi-Screen 4. Divination 5. Nexus 6. Psi-Surge 7. Pathsmanship 8. Invisibility 9. Curing (mostly to get those Silver Bracers from the captain...) 10. Animal Control Grandmaster/New Order Series 1. Grand Weaponmastery 2. Grand Huntmastery (Does LW even _need_ to eat by now?) 3. Kai-screen 4. Kai-alchemy 5. Elementalism 6. Telegnosis 7. Assimilance 8. Kai-Surge 9. Grand Pathsmanship 10. Grand Nexus 11. Herbmastery 12. Magi-magic 13. Animal Mastery 14. Deliverance 15. Bardsmanship Night Owl I don't have all the Grandmaster books, so I won't go into those, and it's been awhile since I did the first five books, but... Kai 1.Healing -- need to keep that EP going or the combats could get to you... 2.Weaponskill--CS is a precious thing early on... 3.Mindshield--a MUST. I never allow myself to by psychically vulnerable. 4.Hunting--Who likes starving? 5.Sixth Sense--Crystal Star Pendant--meeting Banedon is cool. 6.Camouflage--you don't NEED Animal Kinship if you have the Magic Spear. 7.Animal Kinship 8.Tracking 9.Mind Over Matter Magnakai Curing Psi-Screen Weaponmastery Nexus Divination Psi-Surge Huntmastery Invisibility Pathmanship Norshire Well, while we're all at it, here's mine: Kai --- Healing (have any of you seriously tried playing through several books without it?) Hunting (why worry about meals?) Sixth Sense (to meet Banedon) Tracking (generally useful) Camouflage (only way to get through Book 1 without a battle) 2--Animal Kinship (duh) 3--Mindshield (Vonotar has a lot of psychic minions) 4--Weaponskill (Might as well have it, though the Sommerswerd is pretty good :)) 5--Mindblast (better than Mind Over Matter) Magnakai -------- Curing (see above) Nexus (useful in Taunor (sp?) and against the Door) Divination (generally useful) 7--Psi-Shield 8--Psi-Surge (for Lore Circle of the Spirit. Psi-Surge is second because is uses too much EP) 9--Weaponmastery (to throw Dagger of Vashna at Zakhan) 10--Huntmastery (for Lore Circle of Fire) 11--Pathmanship (good for communicating in this book) 12--Invisibility (for Lore Circle of Solaris) Kai Series 1=Weaponskill 2=Hunting (as someone mentioned before, I don't like carrying meals, though this skill is really pretty limited in books 3,4,and 5, but the increased agility really helps at points). 3=Mindshield 4=Mindblast 5=Sixth Sense 6=Animal Kinship (Just in case I pick the wrong path or choose not to pursue the Magic Spear) 7=Healing (always a big help) 8=Tracking 9=Camoflage 10=Mind over Matter Magnakai Series 1=Huntmastery 2=Weaponmastery (Gets a Lorecircle finished right off the bat) 3=Telegnosis 4=Invisibility 5=Pathmanship (Finishes the another Lorecircle) 6=Psi-shield (sometimes 5&6 are switched because the Gnaag Helghast in LW #8 can be a real nasty problem without this skill) 7=Psi-Surge 8=Nexus 9=Curing (those bracers are helpful, plus able to heal non combat wounds) 10=Animal Control GrandMaster 1=Grand Huntmastery 2=Grand Weaponmastery 3=Kai-Shield 4=Kai-Surge 5=Assimilance 6=Deliverance 7=Kai-Alchemy 8=Grand Nexus 9=Grand Pathmanship 10=Telegnosis 11=Magi Magic 12=Animal Mastery New Order 1=Grand Weaponmastery 2=Grand Huntmastery 3=Kai-shield 4=(either Kai-surge, Elementalism, or Kai-Alchemy) These are just so useful in this series its hard to pass them up. 5=Herbmastery Then it varies every single time. Grey Star 1=Alchemy 2=Sorcery 3=Enchantment 4=Prophecy 5=Elementalism 6=Evocation Higher Magicks Everything but Necromancy. Sean-Robert Shaw Grey Lord R Pentney wrote: > > Im really keen to find out what order people choose there abilities in when > they carry characters on. The ones below are only the ones I consider really > crucial. > The magnakai I consider to be impossible unless taken in almost exactly the > right > order. > > SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > Kai Series > > Initial Choice > > Weaponskill - (Just for a good, permanent stat increase) Yes, but after you get the Sommerswerd you shouldn't benefit from it unless you were lucky enough to pick one of the "swords". (If you get the bonus from the Sommerswerd you shouldn't count Weaponskill bonus from an Axe.) > Mindblast - (Again just for a good stat increase) A reasonable choice. > Mindshield - (For the helghast next adventure) Also a reasonable start choice. You need it in LW 2, at least in the Red Fox edition. > Healing - (EP restoration) Yes. One fo the most useful skills. > Sixth Sense (Crystal Star Pendant) Ahum. Why? The Crystal Star Pendant is as good as useless? > 6 - Animal Kinship (for the tunnels) Somebody else asked about this. Did you know what happens when you enter Tarnalin has changed between the editions? In the original edition, if you give your Magic Spear to Rhygar, then you're dead. (You don't meet the rodent.) If you don't give it away or if you don't have it, then you meet the rodent and have a chance to get past the Helghast. In Red Fox edition you meet the rodent only if you give away your Magic Spear. This means that if you don't have it, you're dead! (This makes the path where you meet the Knight in the Watchtower dead paragraphs, because if you choose that path, you're doomed when you come to Tarnalin.) > 7- Hunting (for the ice flow) I would probably pick this as one of my starting skills. Instead of Sixth Sense. > 8 - Camouflage (mind over matte is just as good, not needed but nice) Agreed. > 9 - Mind over Matter (as above) It's nice to have in the Graveyard of the Ancients, unless you get the key. > 10 - Tracking (you never actually get to use it as you get the last skill at the > end of book 5 but hey this ones pretty much useless. The only time its > really good > is at the signpost in book 1, but once you know the right way you're sweet > anyway) > You shouldn't know this... If you don't have Tracking assign Random Numbers to each choice, and the pick a Random Number and select that choice. It's more sport in this way. (Of course in some cases just apply common sense. There's a signpost in LW 1 that goes west, which you really should, will lead you back towards the Kai Monastery.) > Magnakai > For Magna-Kai I prefer something like: Nexus, Psi-Shield, and Divination. (Start) I usually don't need any CS boost in LW 6. I don't get into many fights in it...) Psi-surge (For the Lorecircle bonus) Curing (EP-restoration. If you carry over your Healing bonus, then you could possibly take it later but if you don't then you need it by book 8.) Weaponmastery (Depending on how you count bonuses for this skill and how you handle the Zakhan, Huntmastery may in some case be better at this point.) Huntmastery (Lorecircle of Fire) Animal Control (Lorecircle of Light), good to have a few extra EP in LW 11. (Better than one extra CS in LW 12, where you probably won't need it. Your CS should already be sufficiently high.) Invisibility/Pathsmanship. (it doesn't really matter much which) > Nexus - (You need to get that circle of spirit by the time you fight Zakhan > Kmhar or > or die!! also needed in book 9) > Weaponskill - (You need ALL the CS you can get) > Psi Surge - (Really really useless until later but hey need that circle!) Agreed. It should be deduct -1 EP/round instead of the -2 to be useful (possibly this bonus could be gained at Primate or Principalin level.) > Divination - (Crossbow trap and trapped sword) > Psi Screen - (Not needed except to complete circle) > Huntmastery - (Good to finish the circle of fire before you fight the > Zakhan, defense > against many instant death rolls) > Curing - (nothing like a good old EP boost!) > Pathmanship - (Languages) > Invisibility - (Copletion of circle of solaris, but not really needed at > this point) > Animal Control - (Just never seems to useful, can animals really hurt you much?) > > GrandMaster > Assimilance, Grand Huntmastery, Kai alchemy, and Kai surge is a good starting point if you carry over a character. (Kai alchemy is usually a bit better than Magi-Magic, but often they can both be used to good effect. Pick one of them.) Animal Mastery (To gain entry to the Citadel in Kaag.) Grand Pathsmanship (Against the Antah Wasps.) Kai Screen (Usually saves you a number of EP in each adventure.) Grand Weaponmastery (Against the Deathlord and his minions.) Deliverance Magi-Magic (Against Vaxagore, good if you have a Bow.) Telegnosis Grand Nexus > Assimilance - (deathtrap at end of book 13, and great to sneak past that > sleeping monster) > Grand Huntsmastery (deathtrap at end of book 13 + lots of other instant > death rolls in book 13) > Kai Alchemy - (Just plain useful everywhere, especially at beginning to > blast druid in the back. > Also damn fine to blast the pin open in the laboratory) > Kai Surge- (At +8 CS you'd be MAD not to take it!!!) > Deliverance - (that +20 EP can come in handy, I think theres a point in 14 > when its good too) You already have that +20 from CURING. 100 days translates to every second adventure in most cases, which should prove enough. > Grand Weaponmastery (boost that CS!!! Although I believe it adds an extra +5 on) > Grand Nexus (another all round useful ability) > ? > ? > ? > ? > > New Order > > Kai Surge - (Get that CS up!) > Kai Alchemy - (Just useful in SOOO many ways, lightning hand rules!!) > Grand Weaponmastery (Again get that damn CS up as high as possible!!!) > Elementalism (Very good against that spider) I've been experimenting a bit. It's a good idea to have either Kai Surge or Grand Weaponmastery. Normally, I don't have both of them until a bit later. Both Kai Alchemy and Elementalism seems a waste. They are often used at the same time. You're better off picking one of the other skills. > Deliverance (Defense against the poison blow pipe) > Grand Huntsmastry (helps protect against many instant death rolls) > Grand Nexus (SOOOO good with that combination lock!!!) > >From here on it doesn't really matter, you should have enough skills to succeed > > GREY STAR > > Alchemy > Psychomancy (for the black rod in book 2) > Elementalism > Enchantment > Sorcery > Evocation (those floating spirits in book 2) > > Comments anyone??? Robert Actually, I used Sparrow = Original in this case (although, this may in fact not be true.) So in Sparrow you can get past the Tarnalin with either Animal Kinship or by keeping your Magic Spear. In Red Fox, you must get the Magic Spear. If you give it away to Rhygar, your Animal Kinship skill may save you. If you don't get the Magic Spear, you're dead. If you ask me, I like the Sparrow version best. Robert Ekblad Kai Lords, Is there a favorite enemy that you enjoyed facing in the Lone Wolf game books? I have several, such as Arch Druid Cadak, Roark, Vonotar. Deathlord Ixiatagga was pretty coll too, but my favorite would have to be Kekataag the Avenger (from The Curse of Naar). He looks really psycho and is as hard as nails. Any comments? Skarn My favorite enemy is Kezoor the Necromancer, on board the river ferry in book #8. M'Hael Matt Ulrich Arch Druid Cadak and Darklord Gnaag are my two favorites. Mark Favorite enemies: Darklord Gnaag - a long-term enemy; extremely dangerous to Lone Wolf (if only you can fight him with the Sommerswerd in book 12!). Vonator - kind of wimpy, but one of the first long-term enemies to appear in LW; appearance in book 11 proved a pleasant surprise. The Deathlord of Ixia - one of the few enemies in later LW books that proves to be a serious threat. Worst enemies: Arch Druid Cadek - dangerous, but IMHO seemed one of the least interesting characters that LW fought (maybe it has to do with book 14, which I disliked anyway). Autarch Sejanoz - if LW had fought him in an earlier series, he would have been a complete push-over. Steve My favorite villain has to be Zantaz, Lord of the Pit, God of the Drakkarim. I suppose its just the thrill of beating not just another Drakkarim, but their God. You can't beat anyone more than that. Plus he looks really cool. I also liked Darklord Haakon in book 5. Baron Sadanzo, although you don't meet him much in person, I really like as well just because the depth of his plot and all his hidden plans, etc. that make him one of the deeper characters in the Lone Wolf series. Sean-Robert Grey Lord I've got lots of favourites, so I'll divide them up among the series. Kai series: Burrowcrawler (book 1) Akraa'Neonor (book 3) Bloodlug (book 5) Hammerfist the Armourer (book 5) - The guy's got a hammer for a hand, so he's just GOT to be cool! Magnakai Series: All the nifty critters in Kazan-Oud (book 7) Ciquali (book 10) Baron Shinzar (book 10) Octagtah (book 11) Chaos-Master (book 11) Plaak (book 12) - Jell-o with fangs. Grandmaster Series: Ruel Giganite (book 13) - These things are NASTY! Dholdaarg (book 13 - UK only) - It got edited out of the US version, but it's on the cover of the US version. Go figure. Magnaarn (book 15) Shamath (book 16) - even if her riddle IS impossible... Tagazin (book 17) Zantaz (book 20 - UK only) New Order Series: Zorkaan (book 24) Shom'zaa (book 26) Brumalghasts (book 28) My least favourite are Prince Lutha and Xaol because they're just little wusses who try to be all big and buff. Night Owl Well, I'd probably have to say Keketaag the Avenger. How Lone Wolf could beat him, I honestly don't know. Honourable mention to Zakhan Kimah, the Chaosmaster, Warlord Magnarn (my long lost brother) and Darklord Haakon (you've got to admit, Zagarna, Taktaal and Gnaag are pretty weak when it comes to the power of the Sommerswerd). Autarch Sejanoz.... what a joke. After the brilliant establishment of this undead warlord in #23, his role just faded and faded. Black Death (aka Tristan Taylor) In Magnamund, I'd have to say I'd like to be a Lastlander or Stornlander. Either that or a Crypt Spawn. Call me funny, but I've always wondered what it would be like to look like a human brain with bat wings. In any fantasy world, that's a tough one. The Drow are quite nifty. I have a D&D character who is half human and half storm giant. She looks like a really buff human right now, but in six years she'll be 7'2" (over 200 cm) tall and have a strength of 25. I also like the Svirfneblin race of gnomes. Night Owl Well, I had had to choose a race, it would be the Drakkarim. I'd fashion myself as someone like Warlord Magnarn, and rule with an iron fist. It would also be preferable not being a puppet of the Darklords (like Magnarn), and establish my own domination. I would go one step further than my forbearers, and the machine of war would knock off the free states of Magnamund one by one. Their would be war, blood, death...... well you get the idea. Black Death (aka Tristan Taylor) This week is Warlock of Firetop Mountain. So, did you find this book... Difficult (1 is Super easy; 10 is Impossible to solve) Enjoyable (1 is boring; 10 is YES!!!) Quality (1 is least favorite; 10 is most favorite) Get your results in ASAP. By the way, I'd rate this book as follows: Difficult 8 (it's easy to get to the end, but did you get the correct keys? It took me five times to finish the book without dying and have the correct key combinations). Enjoyable 10 (the original is among the best--crossing a river and expolring a maze inside of a mountain--now that's entertainment. Also, you have to slay the dragon and get the treasure--it just doesn't get any more classic than that. Throw in rescuing a damsel in distress and you might as well call yourself Sir Gawain). Quality 9 (I'd say 10, but Citadel of Chaos is my favorite--where else can you hear phrases such as "alas and alack" and "impudent fool?" On the other hand, you can tell that a lot of effort went into this book.) Robert LaVallie In a message dated 5/3/99 3:27:00 PM Central Daylight Time, gavin.gallot@clandmsl.co.nz writes: > At first I was going to answer Sommerlending to this question and then i > thought about it some more. > > Chances are you wouldn't be powerful, (or immortal!?!?) - you'd be a > regular person. Life in Sommerlund would be pretty tough for the normal > person (in fact it would in alot of places on Magnamund). If i was an > everyday pleeb, I think I'd like to be Durenese. It seems to me that > regular life is easier, perhaps more civilised. You don't have the constant > treat of dark forces invading from the nearby mountains, the landscape seems > more friendly (than perhaps desserts or ice and snow). Ok so every now and > then the ice barbarians come to visit, but it's not like they are a threat! That's right. Us Durenese have to stick together! We are nicer and friendlier! We don't rob and tax the people blind. And we can still be Kai Lords! Immigration lines are open into the country. Kai Master Red Hunter gets teary-eyed and begins to relate a story about his quaint family fishing village of Trelesk in Durenor.... :) Kai Master Red Hunter > Where can I write Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone? According to the FAQ, you can write them here: c/o Children's Marketing Department Penguin Books Ltd Wrights Lane London W8 5TZ ENGLAND I have not actually tried this myself, but let me know what results you get. >Steve Jackson) cuz I'd kind of at least like to let Steve know about the >gamebook manuscript I submitted to FF--though the series is over, I'd >from that on my own story etc. I got a letter from him back when I was 10 I'd love to know more about the manuscript (Gascoigne helped you out, didn't he?), and/or the letter from Steve Jackson. Although, according to dates you provided, the letter was written in 1984, and Mr. Jackson must have made it big already (11 published books). Mark J. Popp Hi everyone! I've only recently joined the list (yesterday to be precise) and it seems very good, discussing the one great love in my life, Fighting Fantasy. Anyway, the reason I'm writing is because of something interesting I found in the back of my copy of Sorcery! 3: The Seven Serpents. At the back of the book, after the spells, it lists the first seven books produced (Warlock to Island of the Lizard King) with a little summary of each. Then, below, it has the following: in preparation: 8. SCORPION SWAMP 9. CAVERNS OF THE SNOW WITCH 10.HOUSE OF HELL 11.TALISMAN OF DEATH 12.THE RINGS OF KETHER 13.LORD OF SHADOW KEEP 14.FREEWAY FIGHTER 15.DRAGON MASTER Were these possible working titles that were later discarded? Space Assassin became book 12, not Rings of Kether (which was three books later) and Freeway Fighter became book 13 not 14. 'Lord of Shadow Keep' sounds similar to 'Keep of the Lich-Lord', but it's way too early. And as for 'Dragon Master', I'm confused. Any ideas? Has anyone else noticed this, I surely cannot be the ony one. By the way, my copy is one of the series that had orange spines. Ta. Rich Well, my copy of the Sorcery series isn't that old, and any summary of future projects to my knowledge had always followed the correct order - until now! I'm not sure how many people have answered this question yet (for I have only just read the message) but anyone familiar with the Golden Dragon gamebook series will recognise Lord of Shadow Keep as the title of Golden Dragon gamebook #3! Incidentally, the Golden Dragon series were established by Dave Morris (FF #43, Bloodsword, Dragon Warriors, Fabled Lands etc) and Oliver Johnston (Blood Sword, Dragon Warriors etc). As for Dragon Master, I have no idea. Tristan Taylor hi i noticed the back of sorcery 3,and yeah i think lord of shadow keep became a golden dragon book. as for dragon master my guess is that its maybe temple of terror due to all the differnt types of dragons were in it and something to do with the main bad guy.its years since i read it just vaguely remmeber. neil > Sean-Robert "Grey Lord" Shaw wrote: > > >Now supposedly Ulnar slew Vashna at Maakengorge, but it was before Sun > >Eagle had > >discovered his disciplines. In book 2 of Lone Wolf it says that if you > >were of > >any one else (in ability?) the sommerswerd would cease to have its power. > >So > >does this mean that when the Sommlending were fighting that they had some > >rudiments of Kai ability? Did they have some knowledge of the > >Kaidisciplines, > >or does it refer instead to the Kai abilities, Dormant or active, within a > >person that enables them to use the Sommerswerd. It would be interesting > >to see > >if anyone has the answer to this, and also to see the different ideas of > >list > >members into how this happened. > > If I remember correctly, the Sommerswerd was given to King Kian to drive > away the Darklords from the land now known as Sommerlund. If King Ulnar was > a direct descendant of King Kian, it would therefore be his birthright to > wield the Sommerswerd. Now lets say Ulnar has no children, the bloodline of > King Kian would stop with him after his death. The power of the Sommerswerd > would thus lay dormant as there is no key to unlock it. > > So what about the Kai Lords? > After Sun Eagle completed his quest, the wisdom of Nyxator flows in him. It > was then passed to generations of Kai Lords up till Lone Wolf. This wisdom > could be the key to unlocking the powers of the Sommerswerd. > > And what about kings Ulnar II, III and IV? > After Ulnar I died, he has no son to ascend the throne. Someone was elected > as king and as a mark of respect to Ulnar I (he did slay Vashna), the new > king adopted Ulnar's name. > > That's my theory. > > Red Angel Actually the Sommerswerd was given to the King of Durenor for his staunch support of Sommerlund in times of war. It was basically a symbol of truth and peace between the two allies. The reason it was in Durenor for so long is simply because the situation wasn't grave enough for the King of Sommerlund to send a Kai to fetch it. Of course the Massacre changed all that. Why Lone Wolf doesn't give it back is also obvious: he has bonded with it. It is as much a part of him as he is a part of it, when (and if) he dies, I believe his spirit will flow into the blade (A catalyst that could transfer his soul to the Plane of Light) and it will lay dormant again. Very Arthurian if you think about it... Rick I agree, particularly about it being Arthurian. The Sommerswerd should be returned to Durenor in exchange for the Seal of Hammerdal when Lone Wolf dies. There it should remain until another great crisis emerges, along with a great Kai Lord to wield it. Ryan O'Sullivan AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH! I'm trying to complete Knights of Doom (#56) and i keep getting to the point where it says "if it has taken you six days or less to get here, go to ---" and if you take more you die. How the **** do you get to this point with all the necessary clues and equipment in 6 days? Has anyone legitimately won this book? The solution on MJP's page is incorrect (sorry, nathan page, but you left one day elapsed out), so can anyone help??? thanks, jeff I figured out another way in which the answer could be figured out in #16. The first and least likely is that you derive the number 10 fromt he Vortexi. In one part three of the phantoms get seven more. This equals 10 Vortexi in all. There is another way. It is derived from the U.S. version of #16 so I am uncertain whether it holds true to the U.K. version. In this version the riddle is not any number, there can only be one solution, and that number is dependent on the Number 6. If x equals the number of loyal servants (6 in this instance) and than 2 dwellers of the abyss show up, this equals a total of 8. This number is doubled when the Lieutenants of Night appear thus equalling a total of 16. But when the Lieutenants of Night appear the Dwellers of the Abyss must depart leaving 14 left. Now exactly half of the Number also has to leave because they were beholden to the Dwellers. Since the Lieutenants were not there they could not possibly be beholden to the Dwellers, thus you can only take half of the loyal servants away or (1/2x=3) three depart with the Dwellers leaving a grand total of (3+8) 11. Execute one who is a traitor and you have 10 left. So the math goes. z=6 6+2=8 8x2=16 16-2=14 14-3=11 11-1=10 If you do this same math with another number, lets say ten you get, z=10 10+2=12 12x2=24 24-2=22 22-5=17 17-1=16. or if you use the number 8 you get 8+2=10 10x2=20 20-2=18 18-4=14 14-1=13 So the question remains, how do you get the number 6. This is going to sound really dorky and really simple and really stupid, but I figured look at the picture. There is a picture of Shamath with 5 automatons, a total of 6 creatures. 6 not only fits for this instance in the loyal servants, but also with the platform. In the U.S. version the correct answer to the first code on the platform is 6. There is no logical solution I could figure except to use the same number as the loyal servants to Shamath (but not to her throne). It also could make sense if these original loyal servants were Gods. In book 20 (U.K. version) there are 6 loyal servants/ gods before you get to Shamath. My spelling might not be correct but I think you will be able to figure who I'm talking about. First there is Oza Pok (#1, first loyal servant), then there are the twins jantoor and Rhunadon (#2, the second and third loyal servants) then there is Zantaz (#4, the fourth loyal servant), next there is Tuanzhor (#5, the fifth loyal servant), and finally there is Shamath. Shamath of course could count herself. Who is more loyal than she is, and she obviously is in front of her throne (or sitting on it so you would have to go through her) therefore Shamath herself would be the final loyal servan(#6, the sixth loyal servant). So I would say, that if there should be a line before the riddle begins, if you had to read one it would say There are six loyal servants before my throne of power. Notice the difference, it doesn't say guarding my throne of power in this instance, it merely says before my throne of power, a.k.a. before reaching her throne of power. My logic might be screwed up in this, but it seems to be logical and make a whole lot of sense in a sort of screwed up way as well. What do you guys think? Sean-Robert Shaw Grey Lord Hi, To go through things. First assume that being a Loyal Servant, Dweller of the Abyss, and a Lieutenant of Night are exclusive. Meaning each creature is only ONE of these things. (If we don't assume this then other possibilites open up. Note that the riddle can be read with slightly different meaning, so you can come up with a different result.) Shamath's first Statement says there are two Dwellers (D=2). Her second statement says that her Loyal Servants (S) plus her Dwellers equals her Lieutenants of Night (N). S + D = N The rest of the text gives the following clue, about the Guards (G): G = S/2 - 1 First Half of her Loyal Servants depart, then she executes one (the traitor). The remainder are the guards for her throne of power. (Notice: that not all of her Loyals Servants guard her throne of power.) So we have: D = 2 S + D = L G = S/2 -1 Going backwards from the correct solution (G = 10), we derive: S (Loyal Servants)= 2*G + 2 = 22 L (Lieutenants of Night) = 24 To solve the riddle we need to find something that gives us a clue to these numbers. I've pointed out where in your equation you've made a mistake below. Regards, Robert Ekblad Ok here's my workings The guards equals the Lieutenants plus the loyal servants, divided by two, minus one traitor, or z = ((x + y) /2) - 1 and, the number of servants is doubled when the lieutenants arrive so Y = X + 2 so z = ((x + x + 2) /2) -1 z = ((2x + 2)/2) -1 z + 1 = (2x + 2) / 2 2z + 2 = 2x + 2 z = x This to me shows that any combination is true. You need to know how many either X or Y is to begin with! Gavin Gallot > Does anybody know if the Darklords were simply made in the year that = > they appeared on Magnamund, or if, instead, they already existed = > prior-to that event? Consequently, what becomes of such a being when it = > dies? Since these creatures are supernatural in origin, they would not, = > presumably, require souls. I don't know precisly. If you go to Legends history, there is hinting that the Darklords existed before they arrived here (as in the creature Garna), beyond that I have no clue. When they die it is hinted that they go to the Plane of Darkness to endure everlasting torture as shown in Lone Wolf Book 20 'The Curse of Naar.' > > As well as that, does anybody know anything about Agarash apart from he = > did such-and-such and made this-and-that? And what about Naaros, the = > fortress? Are there no descriptions of that? And just why was the War of = > the Wyrms instigated? Do any maps exist of Magnamund before the = > Tentarias, or showing the (former) location of Cynx? I believe it explains about Agarash in the Magnamund Companion where it states that he was the champion of Naar and a Dragon. There are pictures of parts of Agarash in Grey Star number 4 'The War of the Wizards,'- one which is a splayed claw which supports this idea. On Naaros, there is almost an entire section in Lone Wolf book 23 'Mydnight's Hero on Naaros, the inhabitants thereof, and the War between it and the Elder Magi. I believe the War of the Wyrms was started as most of the other wars, simply because one side was evil and one side was good, and they both wanted to rule the world/universe. > > Storm Raven Hope this helps. Harold Shaw Grey Wolf > Grrr...how much crap has been removed from the American versions of the > books anyhow? That's annoying! I can see one thing with video games coming > from Japan to US, the Japanese are perverts and most US companies won't > allow half that crap, especially the big N. But I don't understand where > anything Joe Dever has ever done needs to be messed with at all or > changed... Since this keeps coming up, and I've read through all the books, both US and UK, I thought I'd post a bit of a reference for the Grand Master books where major portions were excised. Note that in Books 15, 17, and 19 small bits were removed here or there, but no big pieces were taken out. Book 13-- UK allows you to choose between approaching Ruel from the forest of Ruel or the Skardos Mountains. US forces you to go through the forest. Once you get to Mogaruith, everything's the same, except for that missing section in US if you try to hide from a patrol. Book 14-- UK allows you to choose two entrances to the city of Kaag. US forces you to take one. Once you get to the fortress, everything's the same. Book 16-- UK gives you the choice of sailing across Lake Vorndarol with the Acolytes of Vashna or of trekking around it. US forces you to sail (which is incidentally the easier route). Everything else is the same. Book 18-- UK gives you the option of crossing the Storn in the south or going through Duadon. US forces you to go through Duadon. Book 20-- US removes the section in the mines of Zantaz, the Drakkar King. (i.e., you go straight from the Kunae's domain to the domain of Huan'zhor the Dragonlord.) Hope this helps everyone! Ben G'day all, As most of you FF Fans weill know, two of the many peripherals used in the FF series are Titan and Out of the Pit. I wouldn't mind Joe writing something like this for Magnamund. NO, I do not compare the MC with TItan, but I'd prefer Joe to write a book chronicling the history of Magnamund etc. Sort of like an Almanac. Also, I'd like to see a book produced detailing all of the peoples/creatues/monsters etc. of Maganamund, as the MC only touches on this. I know it's probably a bit of a long shot now (considering the downhill slide of the series), but it would be interesting. Comments? Tristan Taylor I know I'm starting to preach and all but, Mr Dever wouldn't be facing a downhill slide if he had simply renumbered "The Voyage of the Moonstone" book 1, instead of book 21. In a way it is book 1. If I picked up LW21 and saw that big 21, I would put it down again and wonder where number one is. Once I find no number 1, I'd give up. That's what lots of people around the world are doing right now. Now, just imagine the 21 was replaced with "Book 1 of the new series", or whatever. You'd buy it, wouldn't you? Think about it? The guy that said something about a marketing problem has hit the sommerswerd on the hilt. Lawrence Ritchie >Have all of you been introduced to LW or did you just >wander in to a library or bookstore and think, "this >looks pretty cool," before borrowing/buying it. >Certainly, no one bought or read a LW book as a result >of good marketing, as there is none. I found a huge box of Lone Wolf books, with lots of duplicates, about 5 years ago. They were only one dollar each (about 50 cents US), after reading about a page of "Shadow on the Sand", I instantly realized they were better written than any stupid Fighting Fantasy game book, also in the box. So I bought about 5 of the books. I went back to the little shop about 2 months later, after I'd read the five books, to buy more. I was devastated to find the shop had closed down(I wasn't surprised though, given the crazy prices). >Imagine that a >person (who has never read a LW book) walks into a >bookstore and notices a solitary LW book (say #15). >If they have a good look at the book, they will see >all the Improved Disciplines stuff and think, "where >can I get all the other books." Perhaps that person >will feel that it is not worth the hassle. A huge disadvantage for Joe Dever in regard to sales is that the Lone Wolf is an ongoing epic. Epics are simply unbeatable and just what the doctor ordered for us ardent fans but, the problem is everyone's going to want to start at book 1. Most people will get to about 5 and then give up if it becomes hard to get the books. Consequently, bookshops always stock fewer of the higher numbers, to the disappointment of the likes of ourselves. Probably because the higher numbers, no matter how well written, simply don't sell as well as the lower numbers and, they are harder to order due to fewer copies in print, eg. LW 28. The bookshops don't give a toss for us enthusiasts who love to read the higher numbers, unable to stop reading the epitome of never ending stories. **If the books were somehow designed so that all of the adventures were just as much fun and easy to play without having to read earlier books, new readers wouldn't be put off buying the later books in the series** The answer is not to start each book afresh like the Fighting Fantasy series. I got sick of them after about number 9, because they were too similar. An ongoing Epic such as LW avoids too much similarity, or even makes it welcome if nostalgically revisiting a place from an earlier book. The continuity is what keeps us coming back for more so I'm not saying he should make all the adventures seperate, but somethings got to be done to stop customers putting down the higher numbers just because they are continued from a lower number in the series. Books that are a higher number in a series, no matter how good are simply unattractive to buy. Would you rent/hire the second part of a movie? Not before the first part, right? I think one way to get the books published and keep them selling is by releasing them, renumbered at the beginning of each series, ie. with book six that begins at the Magnakai series, instead of putting a great big ugly number 6 on the book, label it number 1 of the new Magnakai series. And so on with the subsequent series- always renumber the books from 1 at the beginning of the next series. Doing this, there will be lots of number ones and two etc, which are more attractive to buy. It really could be as simple as that. Joe Dever wouldn't have to find a publisher for all of the books, he could just start by releasing books 1-5 and, see how things go. They WILL sell well. Then after his publisher gets over the initial lucrative shock, they can release the Magnakai series, numbered 6-12, and so on and so on... Any other ideas? Lawrence Ritchie You know what? When Out of the Pit was first published, less than 20 FF gamebooks had been published at that time. Many new monsters have appeared throughout the pages of the many FF books since, and I for one would not mind seeing 'Out of the Pit 2' being released. Not that there's much chance of that happening. Anyone else share my thoughts? Tristan Taylor I've already started a similar project on my website... I plan on listing all the monsters in out of the pit, then I'm going to create a second list of stats for monsters that never made it in the book and call it " Out of the Pit - Again! " I've already gone through all the books and gotten all the monsters and stats, I just have to data enter them onto the site. I plan on working on it more now that the marriage rush is over.... Also, any suggestions are welcome. The Out of the Pit section is in the BOOKS section of my page. Gilles Belanger I have been thinking for a while that someone should compile a new "Out of the Pit" for all 61 books set on Titan (i.e.1-3,5-9,14,16,19-21,23-6, 28-32,34-44,46-53,55-6, bits of 57,58-9, Sorcery! 1-4, Fighting Fantasy the Roleplaying Game,The Riddling Reaver, FF Novels 1-3, some of Scullcrag (from the Zagor Chronicles), Out of the Pit, Titan, Dungeoneer, Blacksand! and Allansia - I think that might be all) plus Warlock and the "amateur" books on the SoT website. Of course, this would have to be unofficial and would never be properly published, but it would be a great help to AFF players, especially, and I hope of interest to many others as well. Whilst I thought Out of the Pit was very interesting, there seemed to me to be a couple of problems with the structure. First of all, "intelligent" races, such as elves, dwarves and trolls (OK., so maybe "intelligent isn't the right term - perhaps "sentient"?) were lumped in with animals, the undead, ethereal creatures (gangees, etc.), magical creatures (sentinals, crystal warriors, etc.) and supernatural beings (demons, suma, etc.). Ideally, each of these groups should be given its own section, so that, for example, sentient races could have detail of the different types of being encountered; the male/female/young/warrior/worker division does not really do a diverse population justice, and the dwarves, for example, do not even get that. Ideally, I should want a section like the ones in Titan for each sentient race, along with a section on stats and special rules. The other groups would be considerably easier to deal with - a brief description and a few stats might do, although one could include breeding habits, tactics for attack or a history of famous individuals, if one had the time. Secondly, I think that one-off individuals such as the Demon Princes, the Serpent Queen (OotP and FF5) and the Shocker (FF48) should be dealt with separately. After all, there is a difference between a manticore, which could be encountered any time after about 700 O.T., or whenever that mad sorcerer was supposed to have created them, and the gargantis from Crypt of the Sorcerer, which is likely to be unique. Thirdly, humans are possibly the most numerous of all the sentient races. But the only entries in OotP are for primitive head-hunters, neanderthals, pygmies, and so on. Part of the problem, I suppose, was that there are so many types of human that there was no easy way, in the alphabetical structure, to include different professions in the book. However, a Titan-style description of the history and customs of the various human civilizations would be possible, if very time consuming (do you do one for Frostholm, one for Arantis, ..., one for Hachiman, ..., And what about older civilizations which have since become extinct? I see a lifetime's work looming ahead of me - at least most orc kingdoms are basically pretty similar). Finally, as an AFF player, I would like OotPII to show common skills for sentient beings and perhaps even a list of the spells that the wizards of that race utilize, like the ones for orc and goblin shamen in Allansia. In fact, why not include an Allansia-style "how to take a winged gremlin hero" section, as well as the standard monster encounter type list of stats and skills? Well, I know why not; because I would be drawing my pension before the book was finished if it went into that much detail with only one author. ***** ASIDE ASIDE ASIDE ***** By the way, has anyone thought about giving skills to animals? Obviously, the skills list in the AFF books is only suitable for sentients, but how about "tracking" for bloodhounds or even combat skills for trained tigres? If anyone has any better ideas for how to give animals special abilities, I would love to know. ***** End of Aside ***** Back to the subject in hand, I know that I have gone on for ages about what was wrong with OotP, but I really did quite like it, and think a sequal, or rather an expansion and update, would be a great idea. I would love to write it myself, but don't have the time. I am not ignoring the FF world - in fact, I am writing my take on the history of Titan, and if anyone wants to see it then I shall mail it to the list or put it on a website, or something - but I can only concentrate on FF for so many hours each day, even if I am a lazy second year mathematician with the 16 week summer vac coming up. So if anyone else wants to take on this gargantuan task, be my guest. You will be able to count on my help as much as I can give. Failing this, how about a collaboration? I might just about be able to cope with editing other people's submissions, although, again, if there is anyone else who thinks they could do a better job (might not be too difficult, considering my general lack of organization), they are welcome to have a go. Of course, it may be that no-one else is the least bit interested in this project, or is too taken up with Robert's collaborative gamebook to be able to contribute, in which case thanks for reading this far, you can go home now; it won't get any better from here on down. I would really like some feedback on this. If you have constructive comments or with to offer your services to the FF community as an editor or author then I suppose you had better mail the list, so that everyone can read it. If you would like to send me a description of a creature from one of the books not included in OotP,or even one of your own divising, keeping it touch with the background to the FF world, of course, or if you can help me to catalogue all the creatures from the books, or even just tell me how wonderful I am (ESPECIALLY if you just want to tell me how wonderful I am - and most especially if you just want to tell me how wondeful I am AND you are attractive and female), you can email me at daniel.williams@ox.compsoc.net. If you want to tell me how stupid I am for cluttering up the mailing list with inane chatter, you can email me at daniel.williams2@st-johns.oxford.ac.uk. Seriously, either address should reach me; if one doesn't work, try the other. I'd love to hear from anyone. Yours Daniel. Hello All! I just spoke to Steve Jackson this weekend. He now knows about Mark's website. First of all, our efforts are not in vain. The publishers are reading our emails about continuing the series. If you want the series to continue, write the people at Penguin and Puffin. If there are enough people wro write, the series will go on. YOU can mke a difference. Also, Steve is working on a new computer game called "Black and White," which should be out next year. But, I'd rather let Steve do the talking. Later all, Robert La Vallie > The way I played book 17, I did not use the > Sommerswerd while in Xaagon. Before you enter the > city of Xaagon, I believe you are warned not to use > the Sommerswerd. True. I recall one part of the book where you can draw the Sommerswerd when fighting some Cabalah. It burns the Cabalah to a crisp, but then Ixiataaga blows you away with the Deathstaff from the top of his tower. So it is best to keep the Sommerswerd in its scabbard until you actually meet the Deathlord. :) Mark This May's issue of White Dwarf, the magazine of Games Workshop's tabletop war games, has a scenario entitled 'A Secret War' which the author, Jervis Johnson, attributes to Fighting Fantasy. From the article: <> If these types of scenarios became popular, perhaps we might see Games Workshop reviving Fighting Fantasy. Well, we can dream... :-) philip.mills@cableinet.co.uk I got this sent to me today and with the current topics here and since most of us are:- (I got 92%) YOU ARE A CHILD OF THE 80's IF: You know what a burnout is. You know the profound meaning of Wax on, Wax off. You know that another name for a keyboard is a Synthesizer You can name at least half of the members of the elite Brat Pack. You wanted to be a Goonie. You felt ashamed when Rob Lowe got in trouble for sex with minors and videotaping it, because you liked him. You know who Max Headroom is. You wore fluorescent, neon clothing. You could breakdance, or wished you could. You wanted to be The Hulk for Halloween. You Believed that By the power of Greyskull, you HAD the power Partying like its 1999 seemed SO far away. You thought that Transformers were more than meets the eye. You wanted to be on StarSearch or Solid Gold. You can remember what Michael Jackson looked like before his nose fell off. You thought his red leather jacket was cool. You used to wear one woollen glove to school too. You wore a banana clip at some point during your youth, or knew someone who did. You hold a special place in your heart for Back to the Future. You know where to go if you wanna go where everybody knows your name. You thought Molly Ringwald was REALLY cool. You actually thought Dirty Dancing was a REALLY good movie. When you had fights with your siblings you'd say "Don't make me angry!" then pretend to turn your eyes green. You have heard of Cabbage Patch Kids. You knew The Artist when he was humbly called Prince. You actually saw Ted Danson as the MacDaddy he played Sam to be. You remember when ATARI was a state of the art video game system. And ping-pong was tops until Donkey-Kong came along, which you thought would never be surpassed. You own any cassettes. You own any Tiffany cassettes. You remember dancing to popsters like Debbie Gibson. You were led to believe that in the year 2000 we'd all be living on the moon. Glow-worms? You remember and/or own any of the CareBear Glass collection from Pizza Hut or any other stupid collection they came out with. Poltergeist freaked you out. You carried your lunch to school in a Gremlins, Star Wars or an ET lunchbox. You have ever pondered why Smurfette was the ONLY female smurf. You know what a Doozer is. You wore bike shorts underneath a short skirt and felt stylish, or knew someone who did. You ever had a Swatch Watch. You had a crush on one of the Coreys (Haim or Feldman), or knew someone who did. You remember when Saturday Night Live was funny. You had WonderWoman or Superman underoos. You used to laugh at a hairy sock called Alf. You remember that spiky flat-tops were the rave after Top Gun. You know what a Whammee is. You used to boast about how they would achieve those motorcycle formation shots in CHiPs. You used to get into the family car by sliding through the open window of the closed car door. You saw Ghostbusters 7 times. You ran around the playground saying: "We came, we saw, we kicked ass!" You knew all the opening monologues to: The A-team, StreetHawk, Monkey and AutoMan. If you can identify with at least half of this list then you, my friend, are a Child of the 80's. Send this to anyone that would appreciate going back to this wonderful decade... I got started with the Caverns of Kalte. My Journalism teacher had it in her classroom (this was in 1992, I was 16). I flipped through it and got hooked. I had always loved CYOA, but it seemed a little easy (infantile). Anyway, this new LW expereince launched my into RPG in general. I have all 20 LW, GS 1, 2, and 4 (my brother lost number three when I still lived at home). I'm not over ambitious. If anyone happens to have a GS #3, I'd pay up to $10 plus shipping. Carl Interestingly enough, I got my first Lone Wolf book (#10) in eighth grade (1989-1990) from a friend who had bought it at a school book fair and couldn't figure out how to use it. It's first printing Berkeley, and it's still the only copy of #10 that I have. And I didn't get any more books after that until the summer of 1992, when I found a bunch at a B.Dalton at the mall. I bought books 13 and up (abridged US versions) as they came out in the US. I always saw that the unabridged versions were available in the UK, but that was back in the days before the internet and the friendly transatlantic British bookstores. But now I'm pretty much caught up, with the few glaring exceptions. Later on, Rob Hataway It was 1986 and I was fourteen years old. A friend of a friend was over at my house and he had a strange game-type book with him. It bore a black cover with ominous red lettering down it's spine. It was called "Shadows on the Sand." I asked to borrow it for a couple days and a couple days was all it took. Within a month I possessed all of the existing Lone Wolf books at that time. There were six. I've been collecting them one by precious one ever since. During that time I discovered two other similar series that occupied the same small shelf area of the bookstores - Grailquest and Fighting Fantasy. I began collecting them too . . . MY CURRENT ROLE-PLAYING GAMEBOOK LIBRARY LONE WOLF: 1 - 20 (US) 21 (UK) 23-28 (UK) LEGENDS OF LONE WOLF: 1-5 (US) 7-11 (UK) GREY STAR: 1-4 (US) COMBAT HEROES: All Four FREEWAY FIGHTER: 1-4 (US) MAGNAMUND COMPANION THE SKULL OF AGARASH FIGHTING FANTASY: 1-8 (US) 9 (UK) 10-21 (US) GRAIL QUEST: 1-6 (US) GOLDEN DRAGON: 1-6 (US) THE WAY OF THE TIGER: 1-6 (US) SORCERY!: 1-4 (US) The Sorcery Spell Book MIDDLE-EARTH QUEST: 1-6 (US) Plus a few assorted books to uncompleted collections. NOT BAD, EH?! The unerring, Gold Arrow Alright, everyone's probably sick to death of everybosy's story, but if you are desperate to hear mine, continue reading (otherwise delete this message!). I had been a die-hard FF for many years before I began reading LW. In fact, I regarded LW as my arch-nemesis at one stage! For my 8th birthday (or something like that), my grandmother gave me the Magnamund Companion! It was the only LW book that I had for many years! My younger brother complained about this (not because he was into fantasy role-playing, but more because I had something that he didn't have), so my grandmother bought him a copy days later. Every time I visit him in his humble abode in South Australia these days, I attempt to find this treasure (apparantly he lost it many a year back), so I can make $1000 off it( only kidding, I bet someone would pay me $2000 for it :) ) I always use to see the MC in every book shop I went into, lodged in the rack with the various AD&D compendiums. Anyway, come the mid-90's, and the supply of FF books begins to dry up (I had the whole series, and new books were not a regular occurrence). I began to expand my horizons, and what do you know? Lone Wolf had a reasonably extensive range of books. I picked up #15, because I was studying the Crusades in history at the time. Little did I realise at the time that Lone Wolf was a consequtive epic, rather than individual gamebooks! My collection of LW (and all the other gamebook series) grew exponentially during this time, as my craving for new adventures over-powered my grip on sanity! Needless to say, when I received LW #6 last year from Senator Publications to polish of my collection, I was a very happy chappy (in case you are wondering, #22 was probably the 3rd book in collection, as it had just been printed when I first bought it). Well, now that I have bored you all to death, you may resume your otherwise mundane lives. Humble Apologies Tristan Taylor